HAAS down, trying to access other tools in umbrella ATC
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  1. #1
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    Default HAAS down, trying to access other tools in umbrella ATC

    Still not sure on the root cause but a machine grabbed either a tool incorrectly or placed it in the ATC (umbrella) incorrectly but then next time it went to tool change, I guess there was just enough for the drawbar to hold onto the tool but the holder was still not seated in the spindle. The pullstud spun in the drawbar and now the drawbar won't even grab a holder.

    We're getting a technician in but it'll be a few days so I've managed to move the process to another machine. However, I need some of the tools from the crashed machine. I go to recover the other Haas but I can't get it to change tools. It keeps trying to either grab or place a tool into the empty pocket then alarms out. I even try to trick it by saying there is a tool in the spindle/pocket but I can't get the ATC to change to another tool.

    Manual is pretty vague. Is there a trick to this? I figure I can Estop the changer mid change to grab the tool before it tries to clamp.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbmgf7 View Post
    Still not sure on the root cause but a machine grabbed either a tool incorrectly or placed it in the ATC (umbrella) incorrectly but then next time it went to tool change, I guess there was just enough for the drawbar to hold onto the tool but the holder was still not seated in the spindle. The pullstud spun in the drawbar and now the drawbar won't even grab a holder.

    We're getting a technician in but it'll be a few days so I've managed to move the process to another machine. However, I need some of the tools from the crashed machine. I go to recover the other Haas but I can't get it to change tools. It keeps trying to either grab or place a tool into the empty pocket then alarms out. I even try to trick it by saying there is a tool in the spindle/pocket but I can't get the ATC to change to another tool.

    Manual is pretty vague. Is there a trick to this? I figure I can Estop the changer mid change to grab the tool before it tries to clamp.
    Have you done a recovery on the toolchanger? Also, worse comes to worse, you could remove the guarding from the carousel and pop the tools out by hand.

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    I've found several ways that can get the Haas tool change sequence stopped where it thinks it has or doesn't have a tool when it should or should not have one in the spindle or pocket.

    Usually done when interrupting a Tool Recovery, on a start up or cleaning the pockets interrupting with an E-Stop.

    My answer to that is when in doubt, expect a collision and remove tools from Spindle and Pocket.


    But that is not what you asked.


    What alarm are you getting> Tool clamp or unclamp fault?

    If so the drawbar is jammed not letting it hit or leave the limit switches.

    If not, MDI cal up the tool yo want and be ready to stop machine if it want to unload a tool with a tool in the pocket...So yes E-Stop is your friend. E-Stop and pull tools. Do tool recovery, brings you back to T1 and start by calling another tool in MDI - E-Stop Pull tool etc.


    If you can't get past homing-

    I have a few possibles...but I don;t want to screw around not knowing what machine you have.

    If it were me..CALL HFO...The HFO service IS the reason I buy Haas, they can be great to walk you through problems. I think in debug mode you can override home, disable clamp/unclamp switches and rotate carousel...But something to let them walk you through.



    IN a huge pinch

    Option 1

    Raise the Spindle to clear the carousel as with a tool change.

    Hit E-stop, shut machine if you want.

    From left window pry down the swing arm that brings the carousel in for a tool change...as it carousel slides in, the tool door opens.

    The box over the carousel, pull off the front cover.

    The motor to the left is the carousel drive motor.

    Unbolt and pull up.

    The carousel will turn free, pull out your tools.

    Put motor back, cover back, pry arm to return carousel.



    The other option #2 ...sucks.

    From underneath...remove the screws holding the carousel, drop and pull out your tools.

    Sounds easy...but only way I found it works is getting in and under to remove. Clean it the best you can before you start...but wear glasses as more chips will be coming your way. Installing in short...sucks. You need two hands to align and hold it in place and one to get a screw started. If your like me your missing a hand and its tough getting extra hands in there when your there.

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Have you done a recovery on the toolchanger? Also, worse comes to worse, you could remove the guarding from the carousel and pop the tools out by hand.
    Yes. I've done the recovery every way possible but the ATC alarms out for a "134 tool clamp alarm". Due to the nature of the crash, the drawbar seems seized. I can hear the cylinder trying to plunge but it's not grabbing the tool. I'm guessing there's a switch of some sort to let the machine know if the drawbar is working.

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    this a umbrella machine. or a side mount?

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    ok I see umbrella. this is what you have to do. first remove the head cover and adjust the top switch on the tool release piston so it makes and thinks the tool holder is all the way in the spindle ( if you do not want to adjust the switch,
    follow the cable around the side to the connector and simply unplug the switch). then use a m39 t? the t tells it to rotate the umbrella to the pocket you want to gain access to. then with your hand on the e stop push ATC forward in MDI mode as soon as the the changer comes in far enough that the door starts to open hit the estop. then by hand push the umbrella towards the spindle and reach up and pull the tool out of the umbrella. after that then clear the estop . press Zero single axis. then on the key pad push the letter Z ( not the axis jog Z) it may be The letter Z then zero single axis. ( been a bit since I have done this) the Z axis will go home and you can use m39 t to call up the next tool towards the spindle.

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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    ok I see umbrella. this is what you have to do. first remove the head cover and adjust the top switch on the tool release piston so it makes and thinks the tool holder is all the way in the spindle ( if you do not want to adjust the switch,
    follow the cable around the side to the connector and simply unplug the switch). then use a m39 t? the t tells it to rotate the umbrella to the pocket you want to gain access to. then with your hand on the e stop push ATC forward in MDI mode as soon as the the changer comes in far enough that the door starts to open hit the estop. then by hand push the umbrella towards the spindle and reach up and pull the tool out of the umbrella. after that then clear the estop . press Zero single axis. then on the key pad push the letter Z ( not the axis jog Z) it may be The letter Z then zero single axis. ( been a bit since I have done this) the Z axis will go home and you can use m39 t to call up the next tool towards the spindle.
    This did it. Didn't even have to mess with the switch. Just entered M39T## and it worked. It's a quick SOB and hit the spindle before I could hit the Estop but I was able to nudge it back and pry out the tool. Thanks!

  11. #8
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    you're welcome, glad I could help ;-)

  12. #9
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    Another way to get at the tools without using the E-stop is to remove the bracket that operates the carousel door. It is two bolts on the back that can be accessed under the motor.


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