Haas mill turning long shot
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default Haas mill turning long shot

    The HRC has an rpm of 138. Would it be possible to collet a 10mm diameter rod and turn it down to 7mm Diameter on one end to 25mm length. Would it be possible to turn threads on said rod?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    628
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    229
    Likes (Received)
    122

    Default

    The HRC has an rpm of 138.
    That I do not understand...
    Hardness Rockwell C?
    But the 10MM to 7 MM and thread it... for an inch... not unusual.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Austin,TX
    Posts
    275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowshooze View Post
    The HRC has an rpm of 138.
    That I do not understand...
    Hardness Rockwell C?
    But the 10MM to 7 MM and thread it... for an inch... not unusual.
    HRC is the model of a rotary table.
    OP, that is very low SFM but it is certainly possible. The better thing to do is stick a lathe tool in your vise and stick the turning stock into the spindle

  4. Likes mhajicek liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Austin,TX
    Posts
    275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    106

    Default

    For what it’s worth, I have a lathe tooling block that I made that holds 4 turning tools and 4 internal tools for turning with the spindle. I even made a 4” 3 jaw chuck adapted to a Cat40 holder. I used it a ton before I bought my first lathe. With some creative toolpaths I could make most anything that i needed. Programming is definitely the hardest part

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    I dont have a mill yet, and so asking questions so I can decide what to purchase, but the rods are 10” long so i would not think it would be seated far enough into the spindle.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    348
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    266
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    10" long by 10mm diameter....and you don't have a machine yet....you're gonna want to buy a lathe.

    If you need a mill for other stuff and this is just one component of whatever you are planning on making, shop it out to someone with a lathe, or even buy a cheap manual lathe depending on quantity and precision required. If you just need to turn a shoulder on the end of a shaft you don't need much, but a beat up old lathe is still going to be way faster and less fuss than trying to make your 4th axis pretend to be a lathe.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    barcelona, spain
    Posts
    2,221
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    502
    Likes (Received)
    1346

    Default

    It will work fine.
    You need a support at the end of the rod, not flopping 10" in the air.

    Turning 10 mm down at 138 rpm in a lathe will work fine .. just poor finish and slow.
    Same for milling it.

    If you thread-mill the thread it should turn out great.
    A tap with only one tooth should work for onesy/toosie.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    689
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    593
    Likes (Received)
    361

    Default

    I make lots of lathe parts on the mill, because the mill is all I have. One option, as stated above, is to put the stock in the spindle and lathe tools on the table, preferably in a gang-tool setup. I have a gang-tool block on a quick change pallet.

    The other option is to set the stock pointing straight up toward the spindle, and just mill around it like a boss. Work from the tip down so that the part is supported by the remaining stock. Make threads by threadmilling.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    43
    Likes (Received)
    33

    Default

    To the original question, the Haas spindle doesn't have a physical brake on it, so it won't be able to hold a turning tool steady. Putting the lathe workpiece into the spindle is a better option...still jumping through a lot of hoops, but at least it'll technically work.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    I see the problem, the spindle wont be able to lock and hold typical lathe tool angles necessary to turn down or thread the stock.
    Too bad there isnt a spindle lock.

    However my INEXPERIENCED thought was to chuck an end mill in the spindle or such to turn down the 138rpm rotating stock in the HRC and maybe some pointed mill to cut threads. The major hangup I thought of was IS there programming commands to handle such actions necessary to accomplish the job.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    613
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    63
    Likes (Received)
    116

    Default

    You are making this a lot harder than it needs to be. I have machined, tapped, single point threaded hundreds of parts up to 19" long. By using a 5c fixture on top of a face plate/angle block and such, you can do your turning etc. right on the ends, with only what you need sticking out.

    In this picture you can see the 5c fixture on top of a 12 inch angle block I use all the time. Ignore the aluminum parts on the fixture as they are for a different part.

    Just get a cheap and simple 5c fixture and blocks or angle block.

    Mike

    The file attachment manager is not working right now, so I can't post the picture. So, just picture it in your head, simple 5c vertical fixture on top on an angle block.

    M

  13. #12
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    689
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    593
    Likes (Received)
    361

    Default

    You don't want to cut threads with the point of an engraving cutter; it will take forever and you'll keep snapping the tip off the tool since it has no SFPM.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    613
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    63
    Likes (Received)
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by machineit2 View Post
    You are making this a lot harder than it needs to be. I have machined, tapped, single point threaded hundreds of parts up to 19" long. By using a 5c fixture on top of a face plate/angle block and such, you can do your turning etc. right on the ends, with only what you need sticking out.

    In this picture you can see the 5c fixture on top of a 12 inch angle block I use all the time. Ignore the aluminum parts on the fixture as they are for a different part.

    Just get a cheap and simple 5c fixture and blocks or angle block.

    Mike

    The file attachment manager is not working right now, so I can't post the picture. So, just picture it in your head, simple 5c vertical fixture on top on an angle block.

    M

    Working at home. This is an old picture I had loaded for another post, so no aluminum to disregard-------Mike
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fixture.jpg  

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by machineit2 View Post
    Working at home. This is an old picture I had loaded for another post, so no aluminum to disregard-------Mike
    Thank you for the idea. I found an 9” cast Angle block so far but not a 12” one.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YdnaD View Post
    To the original question, the Haas spindle doesn't have a physical brake on it, so it won't be able to hold a turning tool steady. Putting the lathe workpiece into the spindle is a better option...still jumping through a lot of hoops, but at least it'll technically work.
    The Spindle Orientation feature is available on a Haas VF2, would it work holding a tool in the spindle that would allow turning if the part was chucked into an HRC210?
    Spindle Orientation allows the spindle to be positioned to a specific, programmed angle, using the spindle motor and spindle encoder for feedback. This option provides inexpensive and repeatable spindle positioning accurate to 0.5 degree.

    360-degree positioning possible
    Allows the use of air- or coolant-driven broaching tools
    Simplifies robotic part loading and unloading, with strategic positioning for clearance
    Orients the spindle for custom applications

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    43
    Likes (Received)
    33

    Default

    Unfortunately the "spindle orientation" feature doesn't actually engage a physical brake, so it's not very stable. It basically turns it into a servo where the spindle is neutral until you move it, then it fights you to go back to the programmed orientation. The problem is you can wiggle it around quite a bit, and if you turn it fast then it'll cause a lot of movement.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    348
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    266
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    The orient on any of the direct drive spindles isn't very firm. I'm sure it's positioned accurately, but the holding torque is awful. I can rotate the tool probably 5deg out of position by hand before I feel it fighting back significantly. On broaching operations all the force is axial thrust along the spindle axis, not a torque load. You might have a little more holding torque on a gearbox machine, but it's still not a mill-turn with a Capto spindle designed for this (like a mazak integrex has, for example)
    Even my big CNC lathe is the same way. The spindle is a massive servo with a large reduction, but even it has a big hydraulic brake to assist it when doing positional drilling operations or certain radial milling operations. If I don't engage the brake I can push and pull and get it to rotate a degree or two.

    How many of these stepped shafts do you need to make? Are there any complex curves on them or are they just a shoulder with a thread? If the qty is small, get a manual lathe and just knock em out. If the quantity is large, go find a used gang tool lathe with a 5C collet nose, or a toolroom-style CNC lathe. Those can both be had pretty darn cheap, and then you don't have to spend a ton of time trying to make your mill do something it was never designed for.

    Edit: I wanna say a used HAAS TL1 can be had for about the same as that rotary+drive costs you.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    689
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    593
    Likes (Received)
    361

    Default

    If you want to do turning on a mill it's far better to put the part in the spindle and the tools on the table. In my case that gives me a 15000RPM lathe with a 41 part automatic part changer and as many tools as I care to fit on the table. I could theoretically do B axis turning on it too.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    613
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    63
    Likes (Received)
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    If you want to do turning on a mill it's far better to put the part in the spindle and the tools on the table. In my case that gives me a 15000RPM lathe with a 41 part automatic part changer and as many tools as I care to fit on the table. I could theoretically do B axis turning on it too.
    I want to see you do my 14 and 19 inch shafts with that setup! LOL

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by npolanosky View Post
    The orient on any of the direct drive spindles isn't very firm. I'm sure it's positioned accurately, but the holding torque is awful. I can rotate the tool probably 5deg out of position by hand before I feel it fighting back significantly. On broaching operations all the force is axial thrust along the spindle axis, not a torque load. You might have a little more holding torque on a gearbox machine, but it's still not a mill-turn with a Capto spindle designed for this (like a mazak integrex has, for example)
    Even my big CNC lathe is the same way. The spindle is a massive servo with a large reduction, but even it has a big hydraulic brake to assist it when doing positional drilling operations or certain radial milling operations. If I don't engage the brake I can push and pull and get it to rotate a degree or two.

    How many of these stepped shafts do you need to make? Are there any complex curves on them or are they just a shoulder with a thread? If the qty is small, get a manual lathe and just knock em out. If the quantity is large, go find a used gang tool lathe with a 5C collet nose, or a toolroom-style CNC lathe. Those can both be had pretty darn cheap, and then you don't have to spend a ton of time trying to make your mill do something it was never designed for.

    Edit: I wanna say a used HAAS TL1 can be had for about the same as that rotary+drive costs you.
    I considered the lathe route, but because it will be a great time saver to do some of the work on a 4th axis and haas would knock off another 5% if the rot table was purchased with the mill.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •