HAAS TL-1 CNC Lathe vs Grizzly G0884 CNC Lathe - Opinions?
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  1. #1
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    Question HAAS TL-1 CNC Lathe vs Grizzly G0884 CNC Lathe - Opinions?

    Fellow machinists,

    I have been saving for two years to buy a HAAS TL-1 for my small shop. Recently I ran into a Grizzly G0884 13x27" CNC lathe at a gunsmithing shop. Asking price for this used-as-is lathe (looks mint condition) is nearly a %20 savings over buying a new TL-1.

    I could not find any detailed information on the G0884 online. Talking to Grizzly customer service about it feels like talking to a Weyland-Yutani model 1979 android - lots of boilerplate text, zero information. It was announced early 2019. I cannot say it is a proven machine, I only have Grizzly reputation to fall back on. The seller was very kind, and demo'ed the machine to me. It has 1 HP servos, a 4 HP encoded spindle with A2-4. It looks tough, works good, fast, cuts and threads with smooth finish on steel. Looks like Grizzly did a CNC-retrofit of one of their gunsmithing lathes (G0776 perhaps?) with Siemens Sinumerik 808D. It also has 5 tool ATC. 3100 lb lathe with 13x27" bed.

    HAAS has a nibble more of everything (HP, travel, rapids). But it is a single base cast and it does not look it can be taken apart. If I buy the HAAS, it is 4100 lb, it exceeds my existing equipment rated for 3500 lb. We have to make climb with it a 13 degree (23%) slope and move it through a 72x80" door, spindle first, without touching the threshold. We have never owned a machine that heavy we do not know how we would do that. Do you think this can be done? How?

    What do you think? Used and as-is Grizzly or new HAAS? Any HAAS TL-1 users, can the lathe be taen apart a bit for less weight during transport?

    Thank you for your time reading & responding.

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    Hire a rigger, problem solved.

    As to the grizzly, it looks like an orphan. At least haas has a us factory and extensive support network behind it. Network of service people, users, YouTube videos. The grizzly looks like a 13" Chinese lathe with control added. Not much to start with,

    And I suspect 20% savings buying used grizzly vs new haas is more then the grizzly cost new.

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    Thank you Mebfab. Sound point. I live very close to a HAAS dealership, shipping is easy. (Easier than Grizzly). So you are saying a rigger can move a 4100 lb lathe up a 25% hill and push it through a double door? Any idea how much I should put aside for the riggers?

    If bought new from Grizzly out the door price is then ~9% below the basic TL-1. The seller discounts (to include free LTL freight) make up the difference I mentioned. When the price is that close to HAAS it does not make sense to me to buy the Grizzly new. I have been looking around post processors for Sinumerik. Fusion 360 has it. My CAM package does not have it yet. Other machines I have worked with will work happy with a FANUC compatible post with some minor mods. I have been reading people having issues with Sinumerik curves if they did not use exact post. Never used sinumerik so I cannot comment.

    At similar price point there is Tormach Slant PRO, but it is even less of a lathe in terms of capability. I have caught Mazak QT6 and Q8's in local auctions for about same prices but I was apprehensive about buying a used workhorse from industry.

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    Grizzly and Tormach have well deserved reputations as hobby grade machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Grizzly and Tormach have well deserved reputations as hobby grade machines.
    Agree. I have never seen bathroom shower hardware used for coolant delivery in a professional shop. Tormach designed a machine that uses a $8.87 part from Menards bathroom aisle as standard equipment. They call it "Hose for Chrome Armored Coolant System" (part # 30725). Lovely.

    I like Grizzly manual lathes. I mean for the price. I used Grizzly for paying jobs before. At work we are spoiled with Monarch EE's, Hardinges, Colchesters. One day they parked a Grizzly near them and the scene looked like someone went to a Bugatti dealer in their 1996 Toyota. Apples to apples between Grizzly lathe and Tormach lathe I think Grizzly is better value.

    I feel I am being nudged in HAAS direction do y'all reading this thread secretly work for HAAS? JK - LOL, I appreciate the comments keep them coming.

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    Haas and never look back !! once you learn the Haas controls you will love how easy they are to navigate, and program!

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    Quote Originally Posted by madbaby View Post
    Thank you Mebfab. Sound point. I live very close to a HAAS dealership, shipping is easy. (Easier than Grizzly). So you are saying a rigger can move a 4100 lb lathe up a 25% hill and push it through a double door? Any idea how much I should put aside for the riggers?

    If bought new from Grizzly out the door price is then ~9% below the basic TL-1. The seller discounts (to include free LTL freight) make up the difference I mentioned. When the price is that close to HAAS it does not make sense to me to buy the Grizzly new. I have been looking around post processors for Sinumerik. Fusion 360 has it. My CAM package does not have it yet. Other machines I have worked with will work happy with a FANUC compatible post with some minor mods. I have been reading people having issues with Sinumerik curves if they did not use exact post. Never used sinumerik so I cannot comment.

    At similar price point there is Tormach Slant PRO, but it is even less of a lathe in terms of capability. I have caught Mazak QT6 and Q8's in local auctions for about same prices but I was apprehensive about buying a used workhorse from industry.
    DO NOT buy a grizzly or tormach. Get the Haas hands down. Haas is not top of the line, but outclasses those others by a far margin. And yes, a rigger of any skill will move your 4100lb lathe no problem. We had riggers a few jobs ago cart a large G&L boring mill thru 3 doorways and then out onto their truck with no more trouble than a regular joe grabbing a dolly and moving a 50lb box.

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    The Haas TL1 with the 4 Position automatic toolpost is a pretty capable lathe... plus if I ever get rid of it, it’ll retain its value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G00 Proto View Post
    The Haas TL1 with the 4 Position automatic toolpost is a pretty capable lathe... plus if I ever get rid of it, it’ll retain its value.
    Thank you everyone for the insights. So I went to HFO and got a quote today. The rep strongly suggested I get the tailstock option with it. He said without tailstock it becomes difficullt to sell a toolroom lathe if I ever want to sell it.

    My manual lathe has tailstock but 99% it is used for drilling, and tapping. Occassions I need to make a long part are very rare.

    Thoughts?

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    I'd buy it with the tail stock! if you ever need it you have it . and it truly adds to the value of the machine. I use to setup and run a TL1 and a TL2. we didn't in that shop hardly use them. but boy when you did need it, it was invaluable!!

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    I want the tailstock but it eats into our rigging budget. HAAS rep told me the machine needs to be insured if we have to carry it ourselves.

    HAAS owners, did you finance yours through HAAS or elsewhere? (Or bought it outright?) HAAS financing options seem to be geared toward big businesses, not like buying a car.

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    When you need it is when you wished you had it...

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    how is it possible the new Griz is only 9% less? I just can't see that as a savings proposition at all. I don't see the comparison between a used Grizzly and a new Haas is particularly valid either. I get it that you have an opportunity to get the Grizzly locally, but why are they selling it? realized its junk and are trying to unload it? the "reputation" of grizzly is quite something to fall back on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    how is it possible the new Griz is only 9% less? I just can't see that as a savings proposition at all. I don't see the comparison between a used Grizzly and a new Haas is particularly valid either. I get it that you have an opportunity to get the Grizzly locally, but why are they selling it? realized its junk and are trying to unload it? the "reputation" of grizzly is quite something to fall back on!
    Do they even have a reputation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    how is it possible the new Griz is only 9% less? I just can't see that as a savings proposition at all. I don't see the comparison between a used Grizzly and a new Haas is particularly valid either. I get it that you have an opportunity to get the Grizzly locally, but why are they selling it? realized its junk and are trying to unload it? the "reputation" of grizzly is quite something to fall back on!
    Cyanidekid, Grizzly out the door price, new, is $22,259.57. I have been told the other seller bought it (then uncrated and installed it) without realizing Z travel is short for their jobs. They put Grizzly up for sale asking $18,184.65. I saw a new HAAS lathe in the back so perhaps that is what they did.

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    grizzly makes cnc machines....that's news to me. like mentioned before probably some private labeled Chinese hunk o sheet. who orders a machine tool and puts it on the floor to find out its not big enough?...sounds kinda fishy to me more likely they can't get it to machine what they need. they orderd up a hobby machine and needed an actual machine tool. this is a long term investement just like buying your first house quit skimpin order up everything option wise tack on a few extra bucks a month on the payment go out and snag a couple small extra jobs and never look back...with has your future can broaden into a huge range of capability with a universal control on all their machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducesrwld View Post
    grizzly makes cnc machines....that's news to me. like mentioned before probably some private labeled Chinese hunk o sheet. who orders a machine tool and puts it on the floor to find out its not big enough?...sounds kinda fishy to me more likely they can't get it to machine what they need. they orderd up a hobby machine and needed an actual machine tool. this is a long term investement just like buying your first house quit skimpin order up everything option wise tack on a few extra bucks a month on the payment go out and snag a couple small extra jobs and never look back...with has your future can broaden into a huge range of capability with a universal control on all their machines.
    I love the fact that I can go from a Haas lathe to mill and know the buttons do the same thing and are in the same place, even decades apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I love the fact that I can go from a Haas lathe to mill and know the buttons do the same thing and are in the same place, even decades apart.
    That’s complete bullshit... I still hit the wrong buttons on my lathes . That damn Z axis should be the X axis and the damn X axis should be the Y axis... stupid lathes

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    Quote Originally Posted by G00 Proto View Post
    That’s complete bullshit... I still hit the wrong buttons on my lathes . That damn Z axis should be the X axis and the damn X axis should be the Y axis... stupid lathes
    Lol those jog z +/- definitely command attention or else lol.

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    Friends, what are your favorite chucks for the TL-1? Factory suggestion is a Samchully 8" 3 jaw chuck (A2-5 spindle option). I come from manual lathe / CNC mill upbringing. So in my experience with lathes I am used to having both a self centering 3 or 6 jaw, and an independent 4 jaw chucks at hand. (And collets). The 4-jaw sees most use. Does 4-jaw chucks have use in a CNC lathe?

    Is it better to get the Samchully from HAAS or look elsewhere?

    Also what type and size tool holding you like for TL-1? Aloris/Dorian QCTP? Gang type tool holders?

    Thanks!


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