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Haas TM2 X axis chatter

That Guy

Plastic
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
Washington State
I've had this TM2 for almost a year now and never had any issues with it. But lately I've been having really bad chatter when cutting in one direction on the x axis. When cutting in any of the other three directions there is no issue, but when it starts the other way the spindle load will jump 30%-60% and the machine sounds like its about to rip itself apart. See the attached image for a description. Also when interpolating a circle I can see the transition marks at the 3, 6, 9, and 12 o'clock positions that were not there before, with the mark at the 6 being the worst. I'll admit that the transition marks are very small and I'm being a little OCD about them, but they were not there before.

At first I thought it was a workholding issues so I bought two new Orange Vises. That didn't solve the problem so I figured maybe it was the toolholders and bought 10 new Albrecht milling chucks. Still no improvement.

I had a Haas Tech come out and inspect it last week and said he couldn't find anything mechanically wrong with it. He checked the backlash compensation and it was good. So I ran a couple of test pieces to show him the issue. He sent the code to a Haas Application Engineer and the response was that I am being too aggressive with the cut and take a smaller cut, up the sfm, decrease the chip load etc...

I've been making the same parts taking similar and heavier cuts since I've had the mill with no issues. The spindle load is about 25%-30% through the entire cut except in the one direction. So I don't understand why all of a sudden I'm expecting too much from it. The cut can be adjusted down to eliminate the issue most of the time but by then I'm cutting at about 20% of what I'd normally do. A part that used to take 15-20min now takes 45min-1hr. At the moment it's not realistic to cut steel because of how slow I have adjust it, even then I still have some chatter issues.

I've tried different materials, different cutters, different feeds and speeds, different DOC and WOC, different methods of holding the material, but still have the same issue.

A new Tech is scheduled to come out this week and I am hoping that you guys can offer some input on what I should have him check and look for.


Description.jpg
 
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LEts see some pics of the setup.

YOu said you used different materials cutters feeds and speeds but that doesn't mean you did any of them correctly...can you give us some more detail on what you have tried?

The TM2 is not a very rigid machine to begin with..
 
Video isn't going to work, there's not enough lighting. Here are some pictures. Material is 1018CR, using a new swiftcarb .5" 5 flute rampmill MDC coating. .5" DOC .025" WOC, 3100RPM 36.5IPM. Its a pretty light cut, I don't want to ruin a new endmill. The part is symmetrical. There was .6" of held in the vise. The first photo is on the side I've been having issues with. The radii on the ends turned out nice.



Bad side.jpg
Good side.jpg
photo 3 (1).jpg
photo 2 (1).jpg
Vise2.jpg
 
your a little low on the r's but not by too much. give it another grand. beyond that im short for answers. is your tool hanging out a jolly green mile? is your machine level? are you recutting chips? running choolant?
 
Same part cut in the Y, only change is WOC .1" RPM 3300 IPM 30. I cut it dry, would be no difference with coolant on that part.

photo 1.jpg
photo 3.jpg
photo 2.jpg

Tool stickout is 1.02"
photo (2).jpg
 
Machine is level, that's been checked a few times. I first noticed I was having issues with the face mill finish when facing in the x axis but almost mirror finish when facing in the y axis. Spindle has been trammed and checked and mill level has been checked a few times.
 
It only happens in one direction in X? I would have said servo motor going out as that is what happened on mine but it was both directions of X...not sure it would only do it in one direction but you never know...could be the start of the thing going bad.

Now that I think of it - Your spindle load jumping would make me think otherwise...
 
I've had this TM2 for almost a year now and never had any issues with it. But lately I've been having really bad chatter when cutting in one direction on the x axis. When cutting in any of the other three directions there is no issue, but when it starts the other way the spindle load will jump 30%-60% and the machine sounds like its about to rip itself apart. See the attached image for a description. Also when interpolating a circle I can see the transition marks at the 3, 6, 9, and 12 o'clock positions that were not there before, with the mark at the 6 being the worst. I'll admit that the transition marks are very small and I'm being a little OCD about them, but they were not there before.

At first I thought it was a workholding issues so I bought two new Orange Vises. That didn't solve the problem so I figured maybe it was the toolholders and bought 10 new Albrecht milling chucks. Still no improvement.

I had a Haas Tech come out and inspect it last week and said he couldn't find anything mechanically wrong with it. He checked the backlash compensation and it was good. So I ran a couple of test pieces to show him the issue. He sent the code to a Haas Application Engineer and the response was that I am being too aggressive with the cut and take a smaller cut, up the sfm, decrease the chip load etc...

I've been making the same parts taking similar and heavier cuts since I've had the mill with no issues. The spindle load is about 25%-30% through the entire cut except in the one direction. So I don't understand why all of a sudden I'm expecting too much from it. The cut can be adjusted down to eliminate the issue most of the time but by then I'm cutting at about 20% of what I'd normally do. A part that used to take 15-20min now takes 45min-1hr. At the moment it's not realistic to cut steel because of how slow I have adjust it, even then I still have some chatter issues.

I've tried different materials, different cutters, different feeds and speeds, different DOC and WOC, different methods of holding the material, but still have the same issue.

A new Tech is scheduled to come out this week and I am hoping that you guys can offer some input on what I should have him check and look for.


View attachment 101752

If you are performing the same climb or conventional cutting while going both directions in X but one way gives significant different results, then I would be inclined to say it is something with the machine. Otherwise I would expect to see the same results in both directions.

Is this machine still in warranty? If so, keep on your dealer to figure it out and put the owness on them to prove you are doing somthing wrong.
 
Yes same climb cutting both directions. I've got about a month left of warranty, trying to get it sorted out before it's to late. I'm trying to ideas on what to have them check, to narrow down the problem. Besides just that its a toolroom mill and I expecting to much out of it. I haven't any issues before so I'm having a real hard time accepting that as an answer.
 
Take off your way covers and have a look at your X axis rails for rust and pitting anything gumming them up. Is this machine lubed with grease or way oil ?

Ron
 
I've got about a month left of warranty, trying to get it sorted out before it's to late.


As long as you have the problem logged with your dealer, you should be covered even if the fix goes beyond the warranty period. Just don't let them close out the service call until it is fixed. If you feel you are getting the run around by the tech or dealer, then call the factory service help line (not applications) and politely ask them to look into the issue.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Get the tech to check your drawbar pressure. I would also try one of those Techniks holders with the shims to make it a"big plus" holder if the drawbar pressure is good.
 
Tech came out today and identified the issue. There was to much play in the y axis ball screw/nut. A new ball screw and ball nut have been ordered.

To bad the first tech did not find the issue when he supposedly checked backlash. I would request someone different than the first tech from that dealer for any future issues.

Hopefully the new ballscrew resolves your problem.

Good luck!
 








 
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