Haas VF-2 for steel?
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    Default Haas VF-2 for steel?

    I知 looking at possibly getting a new Haas vertical. It would be mainly used for small batch production and tool and die. I知 just curious about it being able to handle harder steels 4140, a2, m2, d2 (rc30).The possibility of hard milling would also be nice with hsm, but I知 guessing that痴 out of the question? I would really like to get a vm2, but right now price point dictates a vf-2. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

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    I have a TM1. We mill aluminum, low carbon and alloy steel, stainless, and titanium with no problem. There are more powerful and rigid machines but for the price our TM1 gets it done. I am assuming one of the VF series is even better in those aspects. A lot will depend on the mills you select and the production rate you expect to achieve. For low volume production/tool and die taking an extra roughing cut doesn't add much cost to a job where the time for generating code and doing setup(s) takes most of the time.

    One of these days we plan to get a bigger mill and it will probably be a VF something, but with a bigger tool changer than the TM1 (10).

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    A VF-2 will hardmill just fine as long as your fixturing and toolholding is kept short and stiff, and the right programming is used (small WOC, adjusted feeds, don't bury the endmill).

    I got the email from Haas today with the pretty darn good sales prices, if you're looking at one of those VF-2's I'd go for it before they're gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    A VF-2 will hardmill just fine as long as your fixturing and toolholding is kept short and stiff, and the right programming is used (small WOC, adjusted feeds, don't bury the endmill).

    I got the email from Haas today with the pretty darn good sales prices, if you're looking at one of those VF-2's I'd go for it before they're gone.
    Been using them for 25 plus years cutting all kinds of materials with very good results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander309 View Post
    I’m looking at possibly getting a new Haas vertical. It would be mainly used for small batch production and tool and die. I’m just curious about it being able to handle harder steels 4140, a2, m2, d2 (rc30).The possibility of hard milling would also be nice with hsm, but I’m guessing that’s out of the question? I would really like to get a vm2, but right now price point dictates a vf-2. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
    what makes you think its out of the question? look on youtube, tons of videos of people hardmilling with haas machines.

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    Our 2015 VF-3SS cuts Titanium and 17-4 H900 no problems. I've even cut some full-hard S7.

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    My thoughts precisely. The price on their overstocked mills has really caught my eye. I still have to sharpen my pencil a little more since this would be a first stab into NC for us. I do feel a lot more relieved hearing success from people who use them though.

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    Make sure you budget for the toolholders and such that you'll need. But if you're convinced you have a good business case for getting a CNC mill then this is probably the best deal you'll find outside of a low-hour used machine. And this will have a warranty, although sometimes you have to bitch to get it properly applied.

    Let us know if you get one. You'll have questions when it comes to use, don't be shy...

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    I have several Haas machines including a VF-2.

    It has cut everything you mentioned and more with good finishes and to size. What it won't do is machine with the power and rigidity of say a Doosan, Okuma or...BUT your also not paying the same amount of coin for the machine.

    What that means in a nutshell, you will have to take it a bit easier on the speeds and feeds, may need and extra roughing pass or two. But program the machine for what it is and you will get good parts, if you need parts pushed through on the limits of tooling and fixture to stay on track...Haas is most likely not your machine of choice.

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    I run a vf2ss on 4140 about 3 days a week ,, produce about 50,000 parts a year and have for 5 years ,, tool life is good, finish is great and aside from a couple of the LED lights burning out the machine has had "ZERO" repairs ,, I am limited by the 3/8" endmills and not by the machine, ya I could spend twice as much and buy a Okuma of other top shelf machine but its not going to make better parts or any faster. In fact 2 haas machines well make the parts twice as fast as Okuma for the same cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I am limited by the 3/8" endmills and not by the machine
    I started out limiting endmills to 3/8" when hardmilling, but then tried 1/2" in shrink fit and the machine handles them just fine. Significantly higher MMR than the 3/8", and many more parts per tool. Might be worth a shot if they'll work with your parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    I started out limiting endmills to 3/8" when hardmilling, but then tried 1/2" in shrink fit and the machine handles them just fine. Significantly higher MMR than the 3/8", and many more parts per tool. Might be worth a shot if they'll work with your parts.
    I tried the 1/2" but the MMR was the same and so was the tool life ,,, I just buy a lot of 3/8 double ended stubs AiTin , I like the YG1 endmills best but there kinda hard to get so I have been getting 20 at a time from Maritool and there holding up good. I get about a hour in the cut time with a ER32 holder and about 30% longer life if I grind a flat and run a short side lock holder...

    I found if I keep the air about 20 PSI and watch how I program the inside corners so I don`t recut chips I can get a LOT better life out of the cutters ... stock Cam program out of onecnc was only getting me like 15 min tool life ,, 4140 and 4340 seem to be mill killers if you get ANY recutting. I watch it kill a couple end mills then hand code that part of the program ,,, but I am old school and hand code all of my production programs ,, I cant stand seeing a machine cut air ,,,

    If its making chips its making money , If its cutting air its costing me money

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    D.D. Machine, the Maritool end mills you are getting are HTC brand? I know at some point they were for sure HTC endmills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I tried the 1/2" but the MMR was the same and so was the tool life
    Really, hmm. Well, different applications are different, but I got 11 hours 52 minutes out of a Helical 27287 dynamic milling Ti6Al4V at the recommended parameters. MRR is 6.8 vs 4 for the 3/8" 27227. Using 1000PSI TSC. I use the same cutters on prehard 4140 for my "soft" jaws and 17-4 H900 parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyman View Post
    D.D. Machine, the Maritool end mills you are getting are HTC brand? I know at some point they were for sure HTC endmills.
    They look just like the HTC cutter I have got from other re sellers ,,, but the upside is Mari stocks them and even if there back ordered on the large quanity when I order them they have some in stock and ship them right out. I have been VARY happy with there customer service and there fast shipping ,,, I try to do what I can to support the small guy that supports the USA ,,

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    We sell a very wide range of endmills. HTC is just one of our many great vendors. These have been getting very popular. Can run the piss out of them and they creat nice fine chips and dont chatter. These are made from another great vendors of ours walking distance from our shop...

    Variable Flute End Mills With Chip Breaker - Made in USA - MariTool

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    I don't know if I need to bump this to a new thread. I did end up getting a machine though; they did go fast. So now its time to look for tooling. I've got my fixtures set in place, but tooling is another thing. Since trying to figure out the best tools for applications(steel,a2,4140) and spindle speed(10k). I was told by my rep to look at Kennametal because their support, but the literature for Sandvik was a lot more user friendly; so possibly leaning that way? At least for shell mills. I know I'm going to get an ER package and a Haimer taster. I like to get a shoulder mill for versatility, but I don't know what teeth count/size to look for (possibly 2.5 inch). I'm sure there are some things I'm forgetting, but any feedback is helpful. Thanks!

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    The Haas will probably be happier with dynamic milling using a solid carbide endmill rather than slow full burial with large indexable cutters. I dynamic mill Ti and 17-4 with up to 1/2" solid endmills from Helical with great results, and occasionally use a 5/8" when I need more length. I get better tool life and can push them harder using shrink fit holders; you can try it out with a MAPP gas torch, and Maritool sells a pretty cheap induction machine.

    That said, it will drive a 3/4" indexable spade drill through 17-4, and I have made shallow facing cuts (.050" deep) with a 5" indexable in the same material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    The Haas will probably be happier with dynamic milling using a solid carbide endmill rather than slow full burial with large indexable cutters. I dynamic mill Ti and 17-4 with up to 1/2" solid endmills from Helical with great results, and occasionally use a 5/8" when I need more length. I get better tool life and can push them harder using shrink fit holders; you can try it out with a MAPP gas torch, and Maritool sells a pretty cheap induction machine.

    That said, it will drive a 3/4" indexable spade drill through 17-4, and I have made shallow facing cuts (.050" deep) with a 5" indexable in the same material.
    I知 glad you mentioned the shrink fit because I was actually curious if mapp gas or propane would suffice. If that痴 the case I値l probably pick up the common nominal sizes under 1/2. As far as flutes I知 assuming you go with a 5 or 6? I was more intending on the shoulder mill for more multirole like facing or chewing on materials like cast if need

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander309 View Post
    I’m glad you mentioned the shrink fit because I was actually curious if mapp gas or propane would suffice. If that’s the case I’ll probably pick up the common nominal sizes under 1/2”. As far as flutes I’m assuming you go with a 5 or 6? I was more intending on the shoulder mill for more multirole like facing or chewing on materials like cast if need
    Two thoughts:

    1) I'd stay around 2" max for an insert mill for a Haas, but ideally also a high insert count to maximize engaged teeth.

    2) If you use a torch for HS holders, try to set up a spinning fixture so you can keep the torch stationary and have the holder spin for uniform heating. A foot pedal operated gearmotor going at 60 RPM sounds right (just my WAG). Have the cutter on a stand close to the holder to minimize time from stopping rotation to insertion.

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