Haas VF-2SS problem running on Phase Perfect Converter
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  1. #1
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    Default Haas VF-2SS problem running on Phase Perfect Converter

    Hi everyone,

    I just finally installed my 2018 Haas VF-2SS in my garage, connect my brand new Phase Perfect PT-030 to the house 200 amp service, then straight to the CNC mill. My machine max FLA is 70 amps, I wire it with 3/0 cable from electrical cabinet to the PP, then 1/0 from PP to the machine. Machine was checked and leveled by HAAS HFO. All the speeds,rapids, feeds work fine, no alarms or sudden shutdowns, at first I notice that worklight LED is flickering, but I didn't pay too much attention to that. I runned the machine for a day or two and then started to hear mills multi tap transformer humming, it got loud especially when it got warmer. Called the HFO tech, they said that they had not much have heard/ had troubles with their machines transformer humming and advice me to check incoming voltages. It's supposed to be all in 120's volts range. I find that T3 to ground is 212 volts, while T1&T2 to ground is 125V. Called the phase perfect support team, they said that T3- to ground 212 volts is normal, and that noise/harmonics can be present in the T3 leg that was made by the converter. They suggest to double check the grounding, and install single phase EMI filter before the converter. I would do that. I understand that it should fix the LED flickering, but would it fix the machine transformer loud humming. I'm really afraid to damage any electrical components on my pretty new mill. I think I bought the best available converter in the market because I heard so much good things about it. I would be glad to hear any suggestions/advice from anyone who had anything like that with their equipment in the past. (sorry for grammatical mistakes)
    Thanks, Andrei

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    some transformers do hum. not quite sure where you are going with this......

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    I would go and double check and re-tighten ALL the connections from the breaker to the machines input. And not saying you need to go this far but, had a new machine installed a 1-1/2 ago and when the tech came in to install it and he went into the electrical cabinet and re/tightened all the connectors drives/breakers/plc everything and found 3-4 loose connectors. He said he started doing this when he would get called back for warranty issues and found a lot of the times it was the, as he put it "limp wristted assemblers" didn't finish there job and a loose connection put ghosts into the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcasanova View Post
    I would go and double check and re-tighten ALL the connections from the breaker to the machines input. And not saying you need to go this far but, had a new machine installed a 1-1/2 ago and when the tech came in to install it and he went into the electrical cabinet and re/tightened all the connectors drives/breakers/plc everything and found 3-4 loose connectors. He said he started doing this when he would get called back for warranty issues and found a lot of the times it was the, as he put it "limp wristted assemblers" didn't finish there job and a loose connection put ghosts into the machine.
    PCasanova is correct.

    This was absolutely the case for me. Was shocked to find that my screws were barely finger tight from the factory on all incoming wires and down to about 8ga. And this was on an older haas. But unmolested.
    Similar setup but in garage shop @ 100amp service and 25hp American rotory phase converter.
    Not an electrician by any means, but the guys at American rotory walked me thru measuring my 3phase legs to the machine and it was NOT power legs to ground as described below.

    Re-check all connections from main breaker panel all the way thru the circuit to the internal transformer itself in your machine.

    How long are your wires on incoming and outgoing sides of your converter?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMOH View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I just finally installed my 2018 Haas VF-2SS in my garage, connect my brand new Phase Perfect PT-030 to the house 200 amp service, then straight to the CNC mill. My machine max FLA is 70 amps, I wire it with 3/0 cable from electrical cabinet to the PP, then 1/0 from PP to the machine. Machine was checked and leveled by HAAS HFO. All the speeds,rapids, feeds work fine, no alarms or sudden shutdowns, at first I notice that worklight LED is flickering, but I didn't pay too much attention to that. I runned the machine for a day or two and then started to hear mills multi tap transformer humming, it got loud especially when it got warmer. Called the HFO tech, they said that they had not much have heard/ had troubles with their machines transformer humming and advice me to check incoming voltages. It's supposed to be all in 120's volts range. I find that T3 to ground is 212 volts, while T1&T2 to ground is 125V. Called the phase perfect support team, they said that T3- to ground 212 volts is normal, and that noise/harmonics can be present in the T3 leg that was made by the converter. They suggest to double check the grounding, and install single phase EMI filter before the converter. I would do that. I understand that it should fix the LED flickering, but would it fix the machine transformer loud humming. I'm really afraid to damage any electrical components on my pretty new mill. I think I bought the best available converter in the market because I heard so much good things about it. I would be glad to hear any suggestions/advice from anyone who had anything like that with their equipment in the past. (sorry for grammatical mistakes)
    Thanks, Andrei
    Andrei, also do youtube search for channel named "SPLIT141". Great content on your exact setup.

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    The archives here have quite a bit. Fun diagram included in this post as well as great theory overview.

    Another Explanation of RPCs, and Their Capabilities

    these 2 have some fun threading as well:
    https://alt.machines.cnc.narkive.com...30-v-to-ground
    Where do we use 1.73 when calculating 3 phase power | Mike Holt's Forum

    Both explain or go into why the 212 is normal on your generated leg.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryhard View Post
    Andrei, also do youtube search for channel named "SPLIT141". Great content on your exact setup.
    Thanks for replying.
    Already subscribe to the chanell.

    Andrei

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    Thanks for respond "Tryhard" and others. From beginning of having this issue I checked to see if any connection is loose. Looks like everything is tight. The distance from the electrical breaker panel to converter is about 6' from converter to machine is 25'. I'm running on 200 amp service, and my transformer is shared with my neighbor house. I have 175 Amp breaker dedicated for PP (Phase Perfect). Had MTS (Machine Tool Service) technician to check my incoming power source, he hooked the oscilloscope from output of the phase converter and did not find any major problem with sine waves of all outgoing 3 legs. Looks like it has a bit of harmonics, and 3rd leg is not super clean since it's generated. But the technician said that it's ok, and I can run the machine. but I feel that's something is not right, and after discussing with couple electrician friends they suggest to put the isolation transformer to step down the voltage from 247 to 235 V to meet sweet spot of 227-243 V Haas multi tap transformer. This way it would get DC bus voltage in ideal position (335 Volts) and it also should clean some harmonics, which might fix the machine transformer humming. If isolation transformer starts humming, but not the machines, then I don't really care, since it's way cheaper than machine multi-tap transformer, it's a larger size separated unit, which can be air cooled if needed. Also it's safer, since outgoing power from it first goes to machine breaker. I think this way my machine electronics should be safe. I'm still discussing with company where I would purchase custom made transformer how it would be all done. After testing this method I would let you guys know if problem was fixed or it's still persist. But meanwhile, I'm still open for suggestions from anybody. P.S Transformer customer service technician had more suggestion what might be wrong then PP service technicians/engineers. I'm glad that American Rotary service techs is more knowledgeable.


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