Haas VF - Bijur oil pump & what oil do you guys use?
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    Default Haas VF - Bijur oil pump & what oil do you guys use?

    My 98 Haas VF-0E has been up and running for a few weeks now. Still running the oil that came in it from the previous owner. but that is getting low.
    Printed on a sticker back there it says "Use vectra #2", I have seen haas documentation that says don't use it, use Mobil 1 synthetic instead. Holding a cell phone led light up to the pump the oil looks to have a red tint but not sure if it is the red liquid grease from haas or just "vactra #2" or whatever.

    What do you guys use?

    Also I've tried and tried to walk behind the machine and catch the pump in a cycle of pressure but it seems to always be at zero on the gauge. I know its doing something because i'm getting oil dripping from the overflow hose. Any tricks to make the pump actuate or...?
    Any tell-tale signs of the oiler working or not working other than the overflow?

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    I use ISO 68 in my older Haas lathes


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Copeland View Post
    ...I use ISO 68 in my older Haas lathes...
    Same here, except that mine is a manual lathe. ISO 68 is pretty much the standard oil for any machine sliding
    surfaces. The specific oil I use is this one from Fuchs...

    RENEP WAYLUBE 68 QS | Industrial lubricants | FUCHS LUBRICANTS CANADA LTD.

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    there is a manual actuator handle. you pull it up and hold it up for about 3 seconds. then let go. your pressure should read around 40 lbs and it should hold pressure for a good 30 seconds. when the system is working properly it should provide pressure once every 18 minutes.

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    Hey TH... A few items;

    Haas has a lub chart. Passing along:
    Lubricant, Grease, and Sealant Tables for Haas Machine Components

    And on the Oil unit-
    Several rebuilding vids out there. (example below). There is filer and resevoir (I call it the mud trap) where I found 20years of gunk. Lots of info out there on these units and spare parts can be obtained from that card I think I sent ya. Guy in NJ. full stock on all things lub.
    YouTube

    Not knowing anything.. I pulled up the chart and went w/ the Mobile 625... Had no clue then. So I'm still using that up. But use what you feel best with.

    A few thoughts- if you run this used haas hard for a few months- Maybe pull some covers (Y and X) and check the trucks and rails and screws to ensure they are getting oil? From the top for Z.. a bore scope and maybe a rag rub and pull up? (I HATE pulling that Z cover ;-)

    ...Just heard some stories on these older units not getting oil in every single place that's important at times. Kinda hard to tell unless someone has some neat trick for us newbies? I know the pressure observation... and that I kinda only trust after she's run and pumped up a an hour or two.


    Anywho.... run fast, run cool, and run lubricated ;-)

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    I used vactra number 2 since I got my 1994 vf0 and 1999 vf0e. Like you I later read from haas that they recommended not to use it. I'm not saying I would or wouldn't recommend it, but it hasn't cause me any problems.

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    My old girls, 96 & 97, have been on Vactra 2 since new. No issues so why change now.

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    Every 15-20 Min of actual run time the control sends a signal to the pump to actuate it. Only then will you see pressure on the gage. I am sure there is a parameter that will allow you to change the time interval for the pump cycle and I would think you should be able to MDI a code to actuate it and see if it's working. We use Mobil #2 I was not aware of HAAS saying not to use it and I would like to know why.

    Good luck with your machine.

    Make Chips Boys !

    Ron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupa3872 View Post
    Every 15-20 Min of actual run time the control sends a signal to the pump to actuate it. Only then will you see pressure on the gage. I am sure there is a parameter that will allow you to change the time interval for the pump cycle and I would think you should be able to MDI a code to actuate it and see if it's working. We use Mobil #2 I was not aware of HAAS saying not to use it and I would like to know why.

    Good luck with your machine.

    Make Chips Boys !

    Ron
    actually Ron the control on the older units ( 2006 and earlier) doesn't control the pump at all. the gear motor in the pump cycles 1 revolution every 18 minutes. the control looks for the pulse in the 1st pump action happens in the first 18 minutes. if it doesn't see pressure it will set a alarm. after the first pulse it then sets a marker in the control. then after the marker is set , it then it looks for a pulse every 18 minutes after that. if the pressure is to low , or doesn't hold pressure long enough. it throws a alarm. its a very simple system.

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    If you want, set a video camera up to film it and then watch it. You will be able to see if the pump cycles and that will tell you if the pump is bad or the switch is bad. That is what I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupa3872 View Post
    .

    ...We use Mobil #2 I was not aware of HAAS saying not to use it and I would like to know why.

    Think maybe it had something to do with the oil breaking down the shielding of the axis wiring harnesses and or seals in the machine ???

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    Is anyone actually running the Mobil 1 5w20 synthetic oil for this?
    Seems kinda thin, but appears to be the Haas approved substitute for the Mobil 625.

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    Original Haas specs called for Vactra #2 way oil for the older VF series machines using Bijur oil pumps. It always seemed odd to me that Haas would spec a way oil to lubricate spindle bearings and linear rails. Haas revised this oil spec for the Bijur oiling systems around 2010 to Mobil 625 or alternatively Mobil 1, 5W-20. I have used the Mobil 625, 626, 634 products for years on six axis industrial robots. I am far from an oil expert but I have always suspected that the Mobil 600 series oils were similar to the Mobil 1 motor oil products. The price difference between a 5 gal pail of Mobil 625 and Mobil 1 5W-20 is pretty significant. Personally I would have no qualms about running Mobil 1, 5W-20 in the Bijur setup. For that matter if your really on a budget I doubt you would have any issues running a plain non synthetic 5W-20 motor oil.

    If you are still running Vactra 2 in your Bijur oil system you should swap to Mobil 625/Mobil 1 5W-20. Haas says DO NOT USE VACTRA #2 any more. I would suggest pulling the Bijur system apart and thoroughly cleaning it. Haas offers service kits for these Bijur Oil systems if your machine has been sitting with Vactra 2 sludge in the bottom.

    Minimum Lubrication - Oil Pump - Oil Reservoir - Service | Customer Resource Center

    SERVICE KIT, BIJUR MECHANICAL OIL PUMP WITH MOTOR | Lube Pump | Bijur Mechanical Lubrication | Lube - Air Panel | Find Replacement Parts | Haas Parts | Genuine OEM Haas Automation(R) Parts Factory-Direct

    If you have never replaced the metering valves for the oil system I would consider doing that at the same time. The Vactra 2 oil can settle out in the oil pump reservoir over time and clog the metering valves to the spindle and linear bearings. I would suspect that this is the number one cause of a spindle or linear bearing failure.

    Axis Lubrication Systems - Identification

    Axis Lubrication System - Bijur Mechanical

    Bijur - Mechanical - Oil Pump - Test

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo442 View Post
    Original Haas specs called for Vactra #2 way oil for the older VF series machines using Bijur oil pumps. It always seemed odd to me that Haas would spec a way oil to lubricate spindle bearings and linear rails. Haas revised this oil spec for the Bijur oiling systems around 2010 to Mobil 625 or alternatively Mobil 1, 5W-20. I have used the Mobil 625, 626, 634 products for years on six axis industrial robots. I am far from an oil expert but I have always suspected that the Mobil 600 series oils were similar to the Mobil 1 motor oil products. The price difference between a 5 gal pail of Mobil 625 and Mobil 1 5W-20 is pretty significant. Personally I would have no qualms about running Mobil 1, 5W-20 in the Bijur setup. For that matter if your really on a budget I doubt you would have any issues running a plain non synthetic 5W-20 motor oil.

    If you are still running Vactra 2 in your Bijur oil system you should swap to Mobil 625/Mobil 1 5W-20. Haas says DO NOT USE VACTRA #2 any more. I would suggest pulling the Bijur system apart and thoroughly cleaning it. Haas offers service kits for these Bijur Oil systems if your machine has been sitting with Vactra 2 sludge in the bottom.

    Minimum Lubrication - Oil Pump - Oil Reservoir - Service | Customer Resource Center

    SERVICE KIT, BIJUR MECHANICAL OIL PUMP WITH MOTOR | Lube Pump | Bijur Mechanical Lubrication | Lube - Air Panel | Find Replacement Parts | Haas Parts | Genuine OEM Haas Automation(R) Parts Factory-Direct

    If you have never replaced the metering valves for the oil system I would consider doing that at the same time. The Vactra 2 oil can settle out in the oil pump reservoir over time and clog the metering valves to the spindle and linear bearings. I would suspect that this is the number one cause of a spindle or linear bearing failure.

    Axis Lubrication Systems - Identification

    Axis Lubrication System - Bijur Mechanical

    Bijur - Mechanical - Oil Pump - Test

    Thank you Turbo442 for the very detailed and complete response!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryhard View Post
    Is anyone actually running the Mobil 1 5w20 synthetic oil for this?
    Seems kinda thin, but appears to be the Haas approved substitute for the Mobil 625.
    Yes, I have for about a year now. I have been struggling with high spindle temps when running above 6k and the subsequent tool sticking issue.
    I have not taken temp measurements, just touch and no sticking.

    What I really want is an N/C valve on the oil line, sight glass with a needle valve for the oil to set the drip rate. When not using the spindle oil still flows and settles in the line. Once you command the spindle air flow carries this slug of oil and this adds to high temp (counter intuitive but true)it takes some time to settle and perhaps by then the job is done at high spindle temps, do a tool change and you get a hard release or stuck tool.

    I have the parts except for the valve, I am thinking pneumatic tied into the spindle oil/air line. Mount this high so there is minimal distance to spindle. I need to do a series of tests as I did when originally fixing the excess oiling, it was too low air pressure @ 7 psi. Turned out to be a bad gauge. Running 14 psi seems to be the trick with this oil.

    The best thing of Mobil 1 is it does not have the 'wax' residue problem of the original 68? oil.


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