Haas VF2 tool and work offsets

Hi guys,

We've just picked up a 2nd hand VF2. For whatever reason I am having a struggle getting my head around the tool and work z offset.

The machine has a laser tool setter which sets the tool offset as the length from the taper gauge line. This gives a positive tool length in the tool table.

I want to be able to set my Z offset with the haimer 3d probe. But I cannot for the life of me get my head around doing this.

I can't set the haimer up using the laser too setter as I can't disable the spindle during the probe cycle.

Could someone walk me through the process of setting up the haimer and then setting a job up on the machine?

Cheers,

Pete

TMSPD said:

Hi guys,

We've just picked up a 2nd hand VF2. For whatever reason I am having a struggle getting my head around the tool and work z offset.

The machine has a laser tool setter which sets the tool offset as the length from the taper gauge line. This gives a positive tool length in the tool table.

I want to be able to set my Z offset with the haimer 3d probe. But I cannot for the life of me get my head around doing this.

I can't set the haimer up using the laser too setter as I can't disable the spindle during the probe cycle.

Could someone walk me through the process of setting up the haimer and then setting a job up on the machine?

Cheers,

Pete

Click to expand...

Maybe this will help you?

How to: Set Tool Length and Work Offsets – Haas Automation Tip of the Day - YouTube

CoertHFT said:

Maybe this will help you?

Click to expand...

Congratulations!!!
You've just linked to the dumbest fucking method to pick up tool lengths on ANY machine built in this century!
And to boot, the OP got not one iota of a hint on how to use the toolsetter AND the Haimer together!

To the OP: Sorry, I can't help you as I do not have a setter, But I do see the dilemma you're in with the Haimer.
About the only suggestion I can offer is perhaps figure out the height the Laser is measuring at, and make a fixed block to that exact height for the Haimer to touch on.

Must say, I pretty much agree with Seymour, one of the worst videos Haas ever put out. I don't have a laser setter either, but perhaps you should start by just learning how to touch off tools the old fashioned manual way. It will help you understand how the whole system works or is setup.

I use the paper touch-off a lot. I also use a touch off gauge. I would never use a feeler gauge as you can fracture a carbide tool by going just a few tenths too far. Use paper and touch off, then bring your tool down an additional .003" or .004" depending on how hard it touches the paper. Paper is right at .004" thick.

The gauge below is like one I use. Do not use the ones that light up, I have found them to be totally unreliable.

EDGE TECHNOLOGY PRO TOUCH OFF GAGE 04-000 (SS2070768) | eBay

No matter the system you use, learn the basics first so you don't end up with a bunch of crashes.

By the way, congrats on getting the machine. Enjoy.

P.S.: I also have a 3D Taster but no matter how carefully I adjust/set it, it seems to be a little off at times.

Ask more questions as needed.

mike

^^^ Those touch off gauges are awesome. They work great! OP get one!

I agree with Seymour that the video link is a little stupid; however...... it is a great way to keep newbies from crashing their machines. Most pros (IMO) will reference their tools off the table, then use a positive Z offset in G54, GXX, whatever.

Not sure I completely understand your dilemma, but if it was me, I'd get a touch off gauge like the one above and set all of my tools to the table. Plunge to Zero on the gauge, then minus 4.00 for all tools.

Next, take your Haimer and plunge to Zero off table without using touch off gauge. Don't jog the Z when Haimer is set. THEN go to the Operator "position" screen and hit "Z" then "origin". This zeros out your operator position in Z. Now you have a chicken shit DRO.

Now jog to the top surface of your stock. Plunge your Haimer to Zero off the top of the work. Look at your Z position on the control screen. BAM, there is your Z offset for G54, GXX, whatever. Enter this value for your GXX as a POSITIVE number.

Not sure any of this makes sense. We're having a family cookout and I'm already drunk AF taking a break from all the drama, LOL. Hope it helps though.

Remember, there are 2 main (some others) schools of thought. Touch off tools to the top of the work (G5X offsets are 0). Touch off to the table and your G5X offsets are a positive value.

Set your tools and Haimer to the table with positive Z work offsets and you are Golden.

Wick Craft said:

Now jog to the top surface of your stock. Plunge your Haimer to Zero off the top of the work. Look at your Z position on the control screen. BAM, there is your Z offset for G54, GXX, whatever. Enter this value for your GXX as a POSITIVE number.

Touch off to the table and your G5X offsets are a positive value.

Set your tools and Haimer to the table with positive Z work offsets and you are Golden.

Click to expand...

One small problem: Put thick-fingering aside, if you use positive Z for workoffsets, then you're all but guaranteed to crash if the offset is left at 0.

Nevertheless, none of this helps the OP with the laser setter + Haimer combo ...

SeymourDumore said:

One small problem: Put thick-fingering aside, if you use positive Z for workoffsets, then you're all but guaranteed to crash if the offset is left at 0.

Nevertheless, none of this helps the OP with the laser setter + Haimer combo ...

Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Setting tools off the table is not for the faint of heart and you have to be very careful not to fudge the numbers or forget to change the G5X offset from 0.

If it was me, it seems easier to just use the Haimer independently of the tool setter. I use one everyday in my VF2, it stays in the TC. When changing jobs, the tool (Haimer) is called, jogged and zeroed on the new work, Z offset reading taken from the control and entered on G5X. Takes a couple minutes or so.

Thanks Guys. I don't like the Haas video of setting tools off from the work piece, seems utterly pointless to me, but im sure it does have its pro's.

I've ditched the laser tool setter (for now at least) and used my old trusty tool setting block. I found the video below, and it works for me. I've done a few setups now and used the Haimer to set the offset. Im new to the Haimer and I wonder where it has been all my life. I've used Renishaw probes before, and the Haimer comes a very close 2nd!

Setting Work and Tool Offsets On a Haas Without a Probe - YouTube

Everything was running well... then the low voltage power supply blew up! But that is a story for another day.

Cheers,

PD

TMSPD said:

Thanks Guys. I don't like the Haas video of setting tools off from the work piece, seems utterly pointless to me, but im sure it does have its pro's.


PD

Click to expand...

When you find out what it may be, please let us know.

Before getting a machine with the Haas probe and tool setter, we used the Haimer 3D sensor, an Edge tool height setter and a 2-4-6 block. This is the procedure we used:

When first powering the machine up, capture the Z position of the Haimer at 4" from table:

1) Place the 2-4-6 block with the 4" in the z direction on the table
2) Using the Haimer, jog down to the zero on the 2-4-6 block
3) Go to User Coordinates and zero the Z

To setup a new tool at 4" above the table:
1) Place the Edge tool height setter on the table
2) Jog the too to the Edge until zero
3) Press Tool Offset Measure

To set Z offset for part:
1) Using Haimer, jog to the part until the Haimer is zero
2) Look at the Z value in the User coordinates
3) Go to the G54 Z (or which offset being used) and type in the Z Value from the User coordinates
4) Use F1 to write the value

This sounds like a lot, but the first setup is only done once after power up. The tool setting is only done after replacing a tool. The third setup for each new part

As a Haas newb, it took me a while to wrap my head around this stuff... But now I have figured it out, and I wonder why the dance with the WCS Z is even necessary.

Why can't I zero my Haimer on the table and enter it's length offset into it's row in the tool table once, and then just jog the Haimer on top of a workpiece and push part zero and be done with it? Why does the Haas control not use the tool length offset for this operation? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

I mean, there's setting 64 "T.Ofs.Meas. uses work" which enables or disables touching off tools in work coordinates instead of machine coordinates. Why is there no "WCS.Ofs.Meas. uses tool lenght"?

I mean, come on Haas, is this really left out on purpose to sell the WIPS system?

I could see it being useful to be able to measure the WCS using the tool offset table. However, it would come at the cost of complexity, which is always a risk. If you don't use a toolsetter, there is no good reason (IMO) not to just make the haimer3d tool zero, and have negative and positive tool offsets. You can still use a manual toolsetter like the edge dial, you would just pick a specific wcs to zero against the 3d length. MDI, pick WCS, then tool offset measure to each tool. Its easy unless you need tool diameter.

I would still use the tool setter, just figure out how to reference it to the haimer zero point. Of course that would depend on the probe routines allowing negative tool offsets.

I have measured my haimer3d like this. First use Edge height setter and known cat40 guage length to zero wcs to 4" above bed, then use 1-2-3 block to find actual guage length of 3d zero.

Regarding complexity and risk: Sure, it is one more setting to keep in mind, however once the machine is set up, it's way lower risk to never have to input either the haimer length or the difference between table and work zero, don't you think? Less keystrokes, less fat-fingering.

As to your suggestion of referencing tools around haimer zero: I actually had that exact same thought after posting. I was wondering if there is no other way to incorporate the haimer length into the calculation at any other point, and I'm now on my way to the mill to try exactly that. What do you mean by "known cat40 gauge length"?

I use this: CAT40 Tool Probe Calibrator - Made in USA MariTool

But the main point without a tool setter is that somehow you link the haimer length to a wcs. But if you use the above with an Edge technologies tool setter for example, its trivial to reset your tool measurement WCS without resorting to fiddling with the haimer again. Of course when your break the tip you'll have to review.

I managed to set up the machine yesterday so that the haimer length is now incorporated in the G154 P99 I use for my tool touchoff dial indicator. So now I can just zero the haimer on the part in Z and that's it. Disadvantage of course is the tool length offset table entries are now all over the place, but I guess you measure them anyway and never look at the value itself.