HAAS VF4 1995 spindle Encoder problem, need help please

RSL · Jan 26, 2019

This a new to me machine, Ridged tap alarms out:
I replaced belt and pulleys as they were well worn out.
I still get alarm about 60% of time.
HAAS tech looked at it and said someone put a new encoder on machine but the "new haas encoders wont work" with this old of a machine. HAAS does not stock or sell the "old encoders".

HAAS tech said original encoder was Heidenhain and still available but does not have part number.

Looking for part number for Heidenhain encoder that will work on 1995 VF4.

Thanks

friesen · Jan 26, 2019

Which alarm? My 96 alarmed until I set the params correctly. It's 4096 per rev and 8192 per z mark, the old was 4096 per mark, check your params.

friesen · Jan 26, 2019

Has tech may not know. If you can see encoder position on you diagnostics screen it's not too old.

RSL · Jan 27, 2019

I changed 4096 to 8192, "spindle step/rev" 79.
Still alarms on tap cycle.
Alarm 173 "spindle ref signal missing".
If it does not alarm on first tap cycle it for sure alarms on second cycle.
Spindle will hunt for encoder z pulse but then alarms within .5 rev about 4-5 seconds.

I could not find a setting for "per z mark" just for "79" "spindle step/rev"
I switched it back to original setting of 4096.
Meaning, I only changed one value then switched back to what it originally had.

Found diagnostic screen that show's "sp speed:" 199 cw. Looked to be about correct visually. So it is reading an RPM.

Any more ideas?
I tried posting screen shot of parameter screen and diagnostic but site would not accept it.

friesen · Jan 27, 2019

The ref signal should be a 8192 because the ref signal means the mark on the encoder for absolute encoding position. 239 maybe?

friesen · Jan 27, 2019

The encoder is geared I think, so one round is half a round on the encoder. When the mocon doesn't see a z mark it doesn't like it.

RSL · Jan 27, 2019

Yes, encoder uses a belt. encoder pulley is (36 tooth) drive pully is(18 tooth) 2/1 ratio ratio. encoder makes a half turn for every revolution of drive pully.

Are you suggesting I change setting of 4096 to 239?

I assume the count of 4096 is how many pulses it receives in 1 revolution of encoder? and yes, it is for some reason missing the z mark in encoder from what I gather.

friesen · Jan 27, 2019

I think it is param 239 to 8192. There are two encoder params, one needs to be at 8192, the other 4096.

RSL · Jan 27, 2019

I only have 238 parameters that display, of the 238 there is a page or so of unassigned.
I'm Not sure where to place the 8192 value.

friesen · Jan 28, 2019

On the new control 239 shows up right underneath 79. My old control was version 9.21b, it was also in there somewhere. If your software is too old or you have dc servos, I'm not sure what your options will be. I suppose you could figure out a way to drive the encoder 1/1, or find your own somewhere else.

RSL · Jan 28, 2019

Would moving to a newer software be an option, if so how do I get a copy and apply to mill?

RSL · Jan 28, 2019

Current version is:
7.25n
95-8-15

friesen · Jan 28, 2019

Your hfo. It also depends on if your main baord and mocon are compatible.

magno_grail · Jan 29, 2019

RSL said:
Would moving to a newer software be an option, if so how do I get a copy and apply to mill?

From what I have read from other people with older machines, "A whelk's chance in a supernova" is about right.
I do not have rigid tap so I do not have your parameters but looking at the A parameters there is the Ratio (steps/inch) and Steps/Revolution that have to agree. I presume it is the same for tapping. On the A axis the ratio of the drive is taken into account in the Steps/Unit.
Parameter 239 is the spindle encoder steps/revolution.
I bought Avago HEDS encoders to build both my rotaries at a fraction of the price of Renco or Heidenhain.

RSL · Jan 31, 2019

magno_grail said:
From what I have read from other people with older machines, "A whelk's chance in a supernova" is about right.
I do not have rigid tap so I do not have your parameters but looking at the A parameters there is the Ratio (steps/inch) and Steps/Revolution that have to agree. I presume it is the same for tapping. On the A axis the ratio of the drive is taken into account in the Steps/Unit.
Parameter 239 is the spindle encoder steps/revolution.
I bought Avago HEDS encoders to build both my rotaries at a fraction of the price of Renco or Heidenhain.

You are correct. Not an option for newer version of of software.

I don't have para 239 as an option.

Heidenheim discontinued encoder 406 021 16
Leine and Linde 558401-03
Model RSI 505 is supposed to be equivalent replacement. Waiting on quote and available.

In the meantime I ordered a used Heidenheim off eBay.. hoping that it will work.
Should have it tomorrow.
Also now getting alarms for z axis cable.

RSL · Feb 2, 2019

It's a no go on the used replacement original heidenheim.
Installed, faults on tap cycle every time.
Am getting z cable fault alarms now. Very random, but frequent.
Also have quote for new encoder, $450 and 4 week lead time. At this point I don't think encoder is my issue.
Not sure what the root problem is.

magno_grail · Feb 3, 2019

No sure if I can help since I do not have rigid tap, what Z fault are you getting?
Do you have brush servos? I was getting an over current fault on the X servo. Two problems, carbon from the brushes had gotten in the windings and a brush holder had a crack which also had carbon in it making a short.
If the tap cycle fault is from being out of sync then it probably is the encoder steps.
The Avago encoders are about $50.

RSL · Feb 11, 2019

Resolved issue:
Encoder was the problem.
Replaced and all alarms are now gone and tap cycle works great.

HAAS VF4 1995 spindle Encoder problem, need help please

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