Hacking HSM on HAAS machines - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    I'm all over finding economical and time saving ways for repair and maintenance of hardware on machine tools, most components, switches, motors, bearings are made by others and one is free to upgrade or modify as soon as the warranty is past - it's fair play!

    Hacking software that you did not pay for even when installed on the control - it adds no mass or takes up memory that you have access to by the way.

    That is considered intellectual property and is not only illegal - its as Captain Hook said "Bad form!"

    Hook - 1991 - Baseball Scene - YouTube

  2. #22
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    It's a code. Guess it! It's only 4 or 5 digits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Man View Post
    You already own the machine and all the necessary code, which resides on the machine.

    My question is this. Are you paying for the code (which is already in your possession), or are you paying for the service of unlocking the code.

    If the latter why are you obligated to pay a service man, when you can do it yourself?

    Software is full of grey areas...
    The only "Grey Areas" with software is the morals of those who would rip it off! The law it self is "Black and White."


    Mike

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven631 View Post
    It's a code. Guess it! It's only 4 or 5 digits.
    with letters its only about 3,900,000+ different possibilities

  6. #25
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    This is common for software controlled items.

    In simple terms...

    The device is a collection of HARDWARE that is contolled by SOFTWARE.

    You pay for all hardware and usually all such devices in a model group have exact same hardware with maybe optional modules that may be plugged in at additional cost for that HARDWARE.

    It is more cost effective to mske one part for all than multiple parts similar but different so the hardware cost is driven way down.

    The SOFTWARE then is controlled by a LICENSE which is like a seat for the cad stuff.

    With cell tower equipment a channel card can be 5 different real expensive ones or one not so expensive one with a variable license that allows cheap entry then purchasing capacity via license that allows upgrade without touching it.

    With the machine same thing.

    Code may be there or not but hacking is theft.

    You may be able to locate a used controller that is already licensed...

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Code may be there or not but hacking is theft.
    What is being stolen?


    Not many people seem to have an understanding of what theft is..

    Stealing is the depriving of someone else of their property... HAAS still have their property so it is not theft....

    I am trying to google search if hacking machine software to enable locked features is actually illegal.. Having trouble actually finding an answer to that... Plenty of examples and even help to help people hack software on devices to enable extra features...

    Quote Originally Posted by BGL View Post
    Hacking software that you did not pay for even when installed on the control -
    Except he did pay for it as it is part of what he bought... If he did not pay for it, it would not be on the machine anywhere...

    Here is a question... If you bought a bridgeport mill, but the power feed for the table was fitted from the factory with a simple padlock which disabled it's use.... Would people consider it fair game to cut the padlock to enable it's use? You paid for it, the machine came with it..

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  9. #27
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    Wow they actually do that shit? Fuck man if I bought a machine for 20 000+ grand and they wanted another 2 just to unlock codes I tell them to take their fucking machine home. They can sell it for 20+ grand or earn nothing, cause some other cunt will. That shit is crazy, I hope you crack it pal. You have paid for that software already cause IT IS INSIDE YOUR MACHINE ALREADY! Boy that makes me angry! That code is not HAAS property once you buy the machine, sign and have it delivered, its under your roof, it's yours, I can't believe they actually do that.

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamanj View Post
    Wow they actually do that shit? Fuck man if I bought a machine for 20 000+ grand and they wanted another 2 just to unlock codes I tell them to take their fucking machine home. They can sell it for 20+ grand or earn nothing, cause some other cunt will. That shit is crazy, I hope you crack it pal. You have paid for that software already cause IT IS INSIDE YOUR MACHINE ALREADY! Boy that makes me angry! That code is not HAAS property once you buy the machine, sign and have it delivered, its under your roof, it's yours, I can't believe they actually do that.
    So you went from not steeling a cam system to steeling unlock codes. you buy a machine with options, and that's it. If it didn't come with them you don't own them. Read any software license agreement the person doesn't own the intellectual property. The license grants you to use it.

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  13. #29
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    I can vaguely see where the people who think hacking code is okay are coming from, they don't understand the distinction between Patent law and Copyright law. But imagine if they were the same: Copyright law allows the owner to tightly restrict how their creation is used and allows them to limit my use in whatever manner is described in the license agreement. Applying this concept to a Crescent Wrench, if Patent Law was structured the same way, would mean you would get a multi-page contract with any you bought specifying what size nuts you were allowed to use it on and how much torque you were allowed to apply, etc. Also the Crescent Wrench patent would still be active.

  14. #30
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    It is really easy to hack machine tools.

    1. Remove the back up batteries.
    2. Delete all the parameters.
    3. Remove the power to the machine.
    4. To make sure that it really is ready, move an axis or two manually.
    5. Reattach power.

    You should be good with all options available.

  15. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Is there anyone out there who has figured out how to hack the machine to allow high speed machining option to be turned on? They've jailbroken the iPhone, can't be difficult to figure out how to bypass the machine to allow options to be turned on.
    I hope you find your hack, if machine tool builders where more reasonable with their prices than you wouldn't be on here asking. Good luck.

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  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    It is really easy to hack machine tools.

    1. Remove the back up batteries.
    2. Delete all the parameters.
    3. Remove the power to the machine.
    4. To make sure that it really is ready, move an axis or two manually.
    5. Reattach power.

    You should be good with all options available.
    Why don't you try that for yourself, idiot.

  18. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmc1724 View Post
    Why don't you try that for yourself, idiot.
    I'm the idiot? I am not the one trying to steal intellectual property.

  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmc1724 View Post
    I hope you find your hack, if machine tool builders where more reasonable with their prices than you wouldn't be on here asking. Good luck.
    What is reasonable? My concept of what is reasonable is what the market will put up with.


    I don't find many movies I want to spend 12 bucks to watch at a theater. I wait until it is on pay per view or on one of the Premium channels. What I don't do is go to the internet or swap meet and buy a pirated version. Same as software. If I need it, I buy it. I make sure I have a serial number or some other way to confirm that it is legit.

  20. #35
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    They set the option level by the amount of voltage fed to the logic boards. Five volts DC sets it to basic mode, advanced options are 24V DC and to turn on all available parameters you run it straight off 240V three phase AC.

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  22. #36
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    RC99, what is being stolen - Intellectual property, look up the definition or consult your local barrister.

    While it's puzzling that they would go through the trouble of loading it and charge such a fee for something so intangible. It took someones time and effort to create it and they have legal right to control its sale and distribution.

    If you don't like it - you are free to buy a different brand machine.

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  24. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGL View Post
    RC99, what is being stolen - Intellectual property, look up the definition or consult your local barrister.

    While it's puzzling that they would go through the trouble of loading it and charge such a fee for something so intangible. It took someones time and effort to create it and they have legal right to control its sale and distribution.

    If you don't like it - you are free to buy a different brand machine.
    You forget it is already installed on the machine, so what is being stolen...

    Whilst if there is an agreement signed expressively forbidding the end user from modifying the software that may be grounds to make any modification illegal, there may very well be no such agreement... Much like when I purchase a digital camera, the camera usually has crippled software but there is no agreement the end user has stopping them from modifying the software.. Thus you will find third party software out there that allows the end user to uncripple camera software enabling and enhancing features that the manufacturer did not want you to use...

    Of course there is legislation expressly forbidding cracking software to allow it to be used on a totally different device, but that is not what we are discussing here...

    I would have wondered why such software comes deliberately fully functional, but deliberately crippled... One would have thought to enable features would require some small extra software code to enable, only available from HAAS and thus it would be impossible to enable extra functions unless the user either uses copyright infringed code...

  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    What is reasonable? My concept of what is reasonable is what the market will put up with.


    I don't find many movies I want to spend 12 bucks to watch at a theater. I wait until it is on pay per view or on one of the Premium channels. What I don't do is go to the internet or swap meet and buy a pirated version. Same as software. If I need it, I buy it. I make sure I have a serial number or some other way to confirm that it is legit.
    Seeing that the hardware & software are already present, if haas where to charge a reasonable amount for the feature then it would be a no-brainer to have it activated, problem is it obviously cost nothing for haas to install (if not, they wouldn't do it), but they feel it necesssary to charge an excessive amount to activate something you've already paid for.

  26. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmc1724 View Post
    Seeing that the hardware & software are already present, if haas where to charge a reasonable amount for the feature then it would be a no-brainer to have it activated, problem is it obviously cost nothing for haas to install (if not, they wouldn't do it), but they feel it necesssary to charge an excessive amount to activate something you've already paid for.
    It cost money to develop it. The hacker not only is stealing intellectual property, he is screwing the shops that actually paid the legitimate license. I can't believe that this is a discussion. It is morally corrupt. It is unethical. But go right ahead.

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  28. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmc1724 View Post
    Seeing that the hardware & software are already present, if haas where to charge a reasonable amount for the feature then it would be a no-brainer to have it activated, problem is it obviously cost nothing for haas to install (if not, they wouldn't do it), but they feel it necesssary to charge an excessive amount to activate something you've already paid for.
    I agree that the cost to turn on the feature may be exhorbitant, however:

    Haas paid for the feature itself by doing the R&D. That's how any software company makes money, or how musicians who sell CDs/other media make money. You have an initial expense, and distributing the product after is simply making copies of the IP.

    The problem that's sticking in the minds of some people here is that "it's already on the machine, it just needs to be activated". That's besides the point. You paid for a machine with X features. Just because there's code within the control that allows X+1 features, does not mean use of that feature was part of the original transaction.

    What the cost of installation of the feature is irrelevant. If it was indeed free, it's called strategic business practice.

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