help! my tool release piston trp won't release the tool .
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  1. #1
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    Default help! my tool release piston trp won't release the tool .

    trp is not releasing . it barely taps the pullstud release rod and that's it.
    i dialed the trp regulator , and am getting the haas recommended 30 psi at
    the solenoid . perhaps the tool is just stuck in the taper?

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    Put something soft on the table, preferably something that'll catch the tool and put some pressure on the tool with a prybar while hitting the release button on the controller. It might take more force than you think to get the toolholder out.

    Then put a couple of gobs of grease on the pullstud of a different holder and load it into the spindle, then run the spindle at max RPM for a bit. If you see an improvement when you go to remove that tool, but it still sticks, repeat the process with more grease.

    I believe it's monthly in the Haas PM schedule to grease a pullstud like this, but it often doesn't get done often enough (or at all.)

    If this doesn't work, you'll likely be changing out the piston/mechanism for toolchanges.

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    here's a video :

    Browser not supported - Google+

    doesn't seem to be extending enough . the trip ring barely moves past the upper
    limit switch.

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    What machine and year?

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    1999 vf-3 geared head. non-tsc .

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    Cool, my $.02 might actually be applicable then.

    I was having the same issue a couple of weeks ago on my '93 VF3. I had a bad O-ring in the tool release piston and all the air was just blowing by. I changed the O-ring and boom, good as new. When you press the tool release button, is it louder than usual?

    Also, you mentioned you have it set to 30PSI....I'm pretty sure it needs more than that. I run 90PSI off the main regulator in the back, and 15-20PSI on the spindle lube regulator. Not sure on the precharge line going in to the TRP but it's set at 6PSI from the factory IIRC.

    Check all of your mufflers on your solenoids as well, if they are clogged they can cause issues. Luckily air line, mufflers, and O-rings are cheap.



    If you do need to change the TRP O-ring, you'll need a valve spring compression tool (I used one from Harbor freight, but they're a standard automotive item), snap ring pliers, and REALLY BIG snap ring pliers. Instead of spending $100 on the giant pliers, I just made a tool for the huge circlip on the bottom of the TRP. It has holes in the ballpark of 1/8", so I just welded some dowel pins to hazard fraught pliers to make it work. I can get you mcmaster part no's for the O-rings later this evening if you need them.


    I haven't worked with a '99 though, so your machine could very well be set up different than mine. I know they made some big changes around '96ish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tnmgcarbide View Post
    trp is not releasing . it barely taps the pullstud release rod and that's it.
    ....
    the solenoid . perhaps the tool is just stuck in the taper?

    First, if the tool is stuck in the taper, the cylinder should still push the drawbar down regardless.
    I did not have sound on when watching the video, but it appears that your main release solenoid might be bad, or the shuttle valve ( or whatever that 2way valve is called ) might be stuck.
    The way to check it is to remove the right side hose from the valve, and see if you get any air coming out when the main TRP solenoid fires.

    Ultimately you can just remove the valve completely and apply air directly to check if the release piston is functioning properly.

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    Is the tool out of the spindle?

    I'd like it out to see if they you get full travel.


    If tool is stuck...piston hits and retracts like shown.
    If TRP is not working properly it will touch and not give the good tap it needs to release.


    Lets unstick...Hold tool, have someone hit tool release button as you give a couple heavy taps to tool holder with a piece of Brass.

    Put a spacer between piston and drawbar to take up the space and release.


    PTR is a pretty easy fix. That Humphrey valve on top tends to go and a cheap fix. Just gotta narrow it down.

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    The static gap seems too large, could be just perspective. Should be .02" to .04" if memory serves. Your manual has a very good guide to removing a stuck tool and checking and adjustment of this release mechanism.

    The basic stuck tool process I have used is a five gallon bucket partly filled with rags positioned under the tool. Tap the side of the tool holder - tap not hammer with a brass, copper or lead mallet while pressing the tool release button.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny SolidWorks View Post
    Put something soft on the table, preferably something that'll catch the tool and put some pressure on the tool with a prybar while hitting the release button on the controller. It might take more force than you think to get the toolholder out.

    Then put a couple of gobs of grease on the pullstud of a different holder and load it into the spindle, then run the spindle at max RPM for a bit. If you see an improvement when you go to remove that tool, but it still sticks, repeat the process with more grease.

    I believe it's monthly in the Haas PM schedule to grease a pullstud like this, but it often doesn't get done often enough (or at all.)

    If this doesn't work, you'll likely be changing out the piston/mechanism for toolchanges.
    Pry the tool out as described above.

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    Three possible scenarios come to mind.

    Air leak at TRP piston
    Bad TRP solenoid
    or seized draw bar.

  14. #12
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    tool may not be stuck. piston only pushes the drawbar .010 or so. i don't think that's enough.

    looking at the video on a large monitor, it's obvious that the stroke should be about 1/4" or more . there is a rubber
    bladder seal between the 30 psi line and the actuator , so that's all she sees is the expansion of the baloon.

    ok , i had a few minutes to re-assess the system this morning... ALL the air comes from the right (30psi)
    side supply. nothing is coming from the valve itself . when i pressed the manual release button on the MAC 55B
    solenoid, nothing happened . with the right input removed , no action at all.

    it is my (mis) understanding that the 30 psi line is intended to balance the force
    of the left side's full line pressure and temper the blow of the piston when it whacks the drawbar. tonight
    i will connect the 90 psi line directly to the piston with a blowgun and see if she pops.

    a NOS valve is only about $50-$60 .... so i'll be very happy if rhat's all it is.

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    Hmm... 30 PSI from the right side does not sound correct!

    Unless some machines are connected differently, I believe that the Humphrey valve ( as-mounted on a Haas ) has the smaller port on the right, which is the lower pressure precharge side.
    The left side is where the main TRP solenoid is, and that is the one which should actually oush the drawbar.

    First, the precharge solenoid opens with some 7 or so PSI and gently lowers the piston onto the drawbar.
    Then the main TRP opens with much higher pressure and actually pushes the drawbar.

    If you say that you do not get that second hit, then it's either the solenoid is bad or the valve is stuck closed from left to center.

  16. #14
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    following haas bulletin:

    https://www.haascnc.com/service/trou...-adjustmen.pdf

    anyway, solenoid is not engaging w/ the manual switch or the control.

    ordered a NOS, in the bag valve on ebay for $40 including shipping . it even
    has a pilot lamp . the MAC website is a great reference to decipher the model
    number codes and such- 55B is the body, 11 is 120v ac , normally closed ..etc
    the rest has to do with non-critical shit that can be worked around .
    anything's better than $300 from HFO .

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    Awesome, report back with results!

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    Finally made it to the shop tonight

    I hit the trp with 85 psi ,and it spit the collet Chuck out like a champagne cork.
    It made a huge boom in the bucket I caught it in. I nearly pissed my pants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tnmgcarbide View Post
    I nearly pissed my pants.
    Thats what shop rags are for, to clean up after such incidents. LOL

    Glad that you were able to get the tool out.

    Mike

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    You get used to it.
    I recommend you work thru the tool release procedure in the manual. Time well spent. Dismantling and cleaning the piston assembly. Removing,cleaning and lubricating the drawbar.Rebuilding the Humphrey valve ($12 with shipping) and setting the actuation gap solved all my troubles.. if this has never been done before to your knowledge - just do it!

    Humphrey valve kit: Humphrey Repair Kit for SQE1/SQE2 (SRKSQE) | Cleaner's Supply

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    thanks for the tip.... bizarre source for pneumatic parts . what's even more bizarre is that my wife already
    had an account with them for our clothing store (they supply our printed bags)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGL View Post
    You get used to it.
    I recommend you work thru the tool release procedure in the manual. Time well spent. Dismantling and cleaning the piston assembly. Removing,cleaning and lubricating the drawbar.Rebuilding the Humphrey valve ($12 with shipping) and setting the actuation gap solved all my troubles.. if this has never been done before to your knowledge - just do it!

    Humphrey valve kit: Humphrey Repair Kit for SQE1/SQE2 (SRKSQE) | Cleaner's Supply
    Agree with this and glad you got it figured out.

    Not sure what year you have, but check out some procedures here: https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam/...ual---2011.pdf
    This is from 2011 but there are many other years available.

    The TRP assembly starts on pg 15. Follow the procedures to set pre charge, adjusting the TRP and the TRP switches.

    Not sure where the air pressure guage came from that you have shown in the video, but the machines do not come with a pressure guage at that location, so do not rely on that pressure reading for much.


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