Holder moving in spindle?
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  1. #1
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    Default Holder moving in spindle?

    If I stick a tool in the spindle and mount an indicator on the table and touch off on the actual cutting tool and grab the holder right below the gauge flange and pull and push should I see any movement? Ima pretty strong 248 lb man but wouldn’t think I could make this thing move as much as I did, about .0080,give or take .0005.

    It’s the only thing I can think of that’s causing my inconsistent finish issues. I can make a cut and have steps and make the identical cut again and some step overs won’t have a noticeable step at all and then there’s times along a cut length where there’s patches that have no step and then a step and then no step. Wish I had a better camera to take a picture.

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    Do the same thing, but with another indicator touching the nose of the spindle face (between the toolholder flange and spindle). Then move that indicator to the face of the spindle housing. See how those three readings relate, that should tell you more about the apparent looseness and what may be causing it.

    If using test-style indicators, be sure the angle of the needle-to-body is roughly the same for each indicator and measurement. Differing relative angles can throw off the scale.

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    I just assumed it could only be the holder moving in the taper so it never crossed my mind to do that. I’m going to do it now

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    indicated the tool, the spindle the best i could and the housing. the spindle and housing i can get .0001 and thats really putting everything i have into it and even some jerking but on the side of an end mill in a 2.5'' holder i get about like i did above,.008. is that normal? on the haas website there is a picture depicting what a correct pull stud looks like and one that is not and the pull studs that haas sent me are the ones depicted as being the wrong type. one has a like a taper below the stud and the other has a square inside corner and the square one,from the picture is the correct one and i have the tapered. i need to call them and find out tomorrow

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    never mind that part about the pull studs

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    Talk to Haas and see what your tech says. I'm a little confused about post #4, but no big deal until you've had a chance to speak with your HFO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Talk to Haas and see what your tech says. I'm a little confused about post #4, but no big deal until you've had a chance to speak with your HFO.
    I placed my indicator and mounted it on the table. I brought the the spindle down with a tool mounted in it and touch off on the side of the tool with a test indicator and grabbed the tool holder as close as I could to the spindle nose and pulled and pushed and the dial on the test indicator moved .008. I then moved the spindle down and touched off on the front side of the spindle housing and pushed and pulled from the exact place from before and the dial showed maybe a .0001 movement. I will take a couple pictures when I get home at lunch.

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    Maybe try bluing the taper to see if it matches the spindle taper. If it does then I would suspect the Belleville spring stack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magno_grail View Post
    Maybe try bluing the taper to see if it matches the spindle taper. If it does then I would suspect the Belleville spring stack.
    If I understand correctly, this is a new machine, but from another thread wasn't installed well (uncaring tech, it seems).

    Sure, blue the taper and look for clean matching. Also double check for any chips or other debris in the taper, carefully run your finger along the surfaces. Might be some crap in there from the factory, stuff happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn_Laughlin View Post
    ... on the side of an end mill in a 2.5'' holder i get about like i did above,.008. is that normal?
    I'm guessing most everybody would agree this is outside of "normal". Is this a new machine as @Milland has surmised?

    Its a long shot, but the bolts securing the spindle assembly to the head casting maybe didn't get properly tightened at the factory allowing some play. I've had stuff in the head not properly tightened from the factory although not the spindle. You'd have to remove the sheet metal on the head to investigate. If the spindle itself indicates nearly no movement then this is of course not likely the problem.

    Can you feel the .008 "play" at the holder?

    It is also possible that the tool release is out of calibration so that the tool is not being properly retained. The Haas tech should be able to measure the tool retention force to see if it's in spec.

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    5dddce93-16d4-437f-b25e-f9a047297187.jpg5ac309dc-13d2-493e-acc6-0a55d2697d97.jpgYes brand spanking new. About a month since it was delivered. This is how it’s facing. Looks like shit.

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    Sometimes it make a decent cut and other times with the same speeds and feeds it looks bad. I haven’t called my HFO yet bc I wanted to hear from some people on here and y’all say that’s not right I trust that and will call.

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    The finish an end mill leaves is easily as bad and worse even worse in some cases.

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    Rule out/find what is moving.

    Indicate the tool, the spindle nose, and the spindle head.

    It is beginning to sound like it is/might be the tool and tool holder.

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    .008" is way off even on my beat to shit, worn out, I'm the third owner 1996 drill/tap mill, oh, and it's a fixed table bridge mill so that is all three axes not just Z moving. Did you try pushing and pulling on the head to isolate the tool holder/spindle from the movement? I suspect it's not the taper or spindle. When the tool holder is that loose in the taper it will rattle when you wiggle it, I know this from working with a Fadal.

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    I think you've got enough feedback to call your HFO now.

    Insist!! that they send their best tech, you should not have to deal with second-stringers to get this machine right.

    If you don't get satisfaction, find a phone number for HAAS Corporate (harder to do now than it used to be) and raise hell. Sometimes you have to make real noise to get action, sad as that is.

    Point them to this thread if you think it'll help.

    Also, make sure that they bring a proper granite right angle to check perpendicularity of the Z axis when they arrive. Don't want to lose a trip due to it not being on the truck. Might as well have the ball-bar too.

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    Did a couple pushes in the x and y to see how much the table moves like was suggested and I can get about .0008 in the y and maybe .0005 in x. X feels pretty solid

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    Try a fresh toolholder and make sure the pull stud isn't over tightened, as that could cause one end to bulge. Use a quality holder like something from Maritool.

    For static testing purposes, the pull stud only needs to be finger tight.

    Obviously remember to torque it before using it. 35-40 ft lbs is plenty for a CAT40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn_Laughlin View Post
    Did a couple pushes in the x and y to see how much the table moves like was suggested and I can get about .0008 in the y and maybe .0005 in x. X feels pretty solid

    IMO those are massive numbers but I don't know what the factory would consider acceptable.

    Reading this got me curious so I tried moving the table around on a couple of my machines with a large bar clamped in the vise.

    A well worn 1989 OKK has about .0002"-.0003"

    A 2000 Hitachi Seiki with over 13,600 cutting hours and no lube system MAYBE moved a 50 millions indicator half a division.

    Maybe those numbers might help your argument, maybe not

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    Man finally got my indicator. My old one is needing a recalibration if this one is right bc I get .0008 movement when I pull on it, a far cry from the .008 the other one was showing but that still seems to be a little much? I faced some aluminum with a 3” 45 octoganol inserts,6 of them and ran indicator in x and y in 1/2 inch increments and in the x directing if I start off at 0 and move 14” it rises and falls but by like +.0001 and then -.0001 and it does that wave action through the hole movement. I cut in the x direction so there are no tool over laps I’m running over. In the y when i drag the indicator some pulls which are 8” long the needle doesn’t move where other places where I’ve moved over 1/2 an inch I get like .0002 at the cut overlap. So it’s like in the x direction it’s rising and falling over and over but by a very small amount. Should o call that good or no? I hope worded that so y’all understand what I’m trying to say?


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