How does Haas determine if machine is "cold"?

Mike1974 · May 4, 2020

So I have a question someone might be able to help with. I am in the Tampa Bay FL area. It does not really get cold here, maybe a few weeks in Jan-Feb (40-60 deg lol), anyways, how does a Haas machine determine it is "cold" and needs to be warmed up? I usually see the message on Monday mornings, like today. Is it actually measuring a temperature somewhere, or is it a timed thing? Most of the time I run them at 50% spindle and feed for a bit in the morning, so I am not concerned with any 'damage', just curious how it works... ??

AARONT · May 4, 2020

Mike1974 said:
So I have a question someone might be able to help with. I am in the Tampa Bay FL area. It does not really get cold here, maybe a few weeks in Jan-Feb (40-60 deg lol), anyways, how does a Haas machine determine it is "cold" and needs to be warmed up? I usually see the message on Monday mornings, like today. Is it actually measuring a temperature somewhere, or is it a timed thing? Most of the time I run them at 50% spindle and feed for a bit in the morning, so I am not concerned with any 'damage', just curious how it works... ??

If the machine hasn't been powered on in I believe 48hrs, then that message pops up.

ChipSplitter · May 4, 2020

AARONT said:
If the machine hasn't been powered on in I believe 48hrs, then that message pops up.

Correct, except I think it's 96 hours.
You are supposed to run a "Warmup Program" which consists of ramping the spindle speed up and down for 20 min.
Theory is it works the oil up into the bearings at a lower speed to avoid overheating them.

DMF_TomB · May 4, 2020

some believe a warmup cycle running the slides back and forth also helps oil and clean rust and dirt off precision rails. the excess oil picks up dirt and flows or drips off a type of cleaning
.
other machine brands have machine heaters on rails, screws, spindle, theory being to stabilize for more consistent temp. of course large centralized coolant often have refrigerate system cool down hot coolant systems but many do not have way of warming up cold coolant. just saying if coolant is 20F colder than part and machine it causes localized temporary cooling more than desired (stuff gets temporarily smaller when colder usually)

Larry Dickman · May 4, 2020

It is both time and temp. I'm not sure what the cutoff temp is, but sometimes it gets down into the 40's in the shop, and the cold warning comes up. Also, as mentioned above, the cold warning comes up if the machine hasn't been powered up in a few days, even if it isn't cold out.

empower · May 4, 2020

Mike1974 said:
So I have a question someone might be able to help with. I am in the Tampa Bay FL area. It does not really get cold here, maybe a few weeks in Jan-Feb (40-60 deg lol), anyways, how does a Haas machine determine it is "cold" and needs to be warmed up? I usually see the message on Monday mornings, like today. Is it actually measuring a temperature somewhere, or is it a timed thing? Most of the time I run them at 50% spindle and feed for a bit in the morning, so I am not concerned with any 'damage', just curious how it works... ??

roll of the dice?
i kid... :p

AARONT · May 4, 2020

ChipSplitter said:
Correct, except I think it's 96 hours.
You are supposed to run a "Warmup Program" which consists of ramping the spindle speed up and down for 20 min.
Theory is it works the oil up into the bearings at a lower speed to avoid overheating them.

Ours show the alarm after the machine has been off for over 48 hours.

Typically a spindle warmup won't go up and down but gradually just increase rpm's. Then there's also moving your table in x,y and spindle in z if you want to get fancy with your warmups.

mhajicek · May 4, 2020

If the spindle hasn't been above some temperature, I think maybe 70F, in a certain number of days, usually two or three. I believe these parameters can be changed. Also, the spindle "warm-up" isn't actually for warm up, it's for lubrication distribution. At least that's what my HFO told me. I run the spindle warm-up program every morning unless the machine was running overnight; it's cheap insurance.

ranchak · May 4, 2020

It's controlled by Parameter 259:

Haas Parameter 259 COLD SPINDLE DAYS - Haas Mill - Helman CNC

ChipSplitter · May 4, 2020

AARONT said:
Ours show the alarm after the machine has been off for over 48 hours.

Typically a spindle warmup won't go up and down but gradually just increase rpm's. Then there's also moving your table in x,y and spindle in z if you want to get fancy with your warmups.

Maybe Haas has different programs, because ours will slowly work it way to 8K then drop back down and start over.
Haas says the purpose is to work the oil up into the spindle bearings after gravity brought it down over the idle period.

as9100d · May 4, 2020

One thing I've learned about haas over the years is they are full of shit.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

SIM · May 5, 2020

as9100d said:
One thing I've learned about haas over the years is they are full of shit.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I had to sign in just to like this post.

I get that message most mornings if I haven't already warmed up the spindle. I'll on occasion also get the message again after a period of machine sitting idle. That time is nowhere near days, day...might only be a couple hours if I'm tied up where I can't get back to the machine for awhile. Slow rpm jobs I just clear and go. If it's a high RPM job, I'll let spindle warm up again.

mhajicek · May 5, 2020

SIM said:
I had to sign in just to like this post.

I get that message most mornings if I haven't already warmed up the spindle. I'll on occasion also get the message again after a period of machine sitting idle. That time is nowhere near days, day...might only be a couple hours if I'm tied up where I can't get back to the machine for awhile. Slow rpm jobs I just clear and go. If it's a high RPM job, I'll let spindle warm up again.

Or you can fix it to your liking permanently.

The initial value for this parameter is 3 (days). To disable this feature, change it to 999999.

D.D.Machine · May 6, 2020

I see that pop up all the time about a cold machine ,, but I "ALWAYS" run a 20 min warmup to get the oil cleaned out of the spindle ,, I run Haas spindles all day long at 12k and have for years ,, never had to buy one yet so I must be doing something right.

I just ran a 9 hour mold job and the spindle was at 10K non stop ( DM2 ) and after 9 hours the inside of the spindle felt the same temp as the table .. got-a-love a oil/air spindle ,, I remember back in the grease pack days spindles get hot as hell at 6k after a few hours.

wheelieking71 · May 11, 2020

You guys are kinda on the right track with the spindle bearings.
The deal is: after sitting idle for a while all the oil will pool on the bottom bearing basically submerging it in oil.
For a ceramic air/oil mist lubed and cooled bearing, this is BAD news.
The purpose of the spindle "warm-up" is to un-cover that bottom bearing so air can cool it.
If you fire it up with that bearing submerged, and whack the throttle wide open, kiss it goodbye.
Heat will kill it in short order.
They should come up with a better term than "spindle warm up" because that is not what is happening at all.

wheelieking71 · May 11, 2020

D.D.Machine said:
I see that pop up all the time about a cold machine ,, but I "ALWAYS" run a 20 min warmup to get the oil cleaned out of the spindle ,, I run Haas spindles all day long at 12k and have for years ,, never had to buy one yet so I must be doing something right.

Same. I hear people all the time: "I only run my 12k spindle at 8k because I don't want to hurt it". I just laugh!
Mine live at 12k, all day, every day. I have one on borrowed time. It was crashed bad enough about 5 years ago to cause it to be quite noisy.
I thought "well, I have about 30 days to save up for a spindle". It is still going! And, I do not baby it.
All I do is run the spindle @ 1500rpm for 15 minutes every morning. Then, let her eat!

ChipSplitter · May 11, 2020

wheelieking71 said:
Same. I hear people all the time: "I only run my 12k spindle at 8k because I don't want to hurt it". I just laugh!
Mine live at 12k, all day, every day. I have one on borrowed time. It was crashed bad enough about 5 years ago to cause it to be quite noisy.
I thought "well, I have about 30 days to save up for a spindle". It is still going! And, I do not baby it.
All I do is run the spindle @ 1500rpm for 15 minutes every morning. Then, let her eat!

Same here. If the MTB put a 12K sticker on that spindle, it can do it around the clock.
What gets scary is when guys post here asking how to make an 8K spindle do 15K..... :eek:

wheelieking71 · May 11, 2020

ChipSplitter said:
Same here. If the MTB put a 12K sticker on that spindle, it can do it around the clock.
What gets scary is when guys post here asking how to make an 8K spindle do 15K.....

I have been told the 8k direct drive is the exact same spindle as the 12k SS, other than a few parameters.

How does Haas determine if machine is "cold"?

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