HSM on an older year 2000 haas vf0e..... is it worth it?

I have a year 2000 haas vf0e

Spec
VER - M10.31N
MOCON - 11.00
00-09-22
Model - VF0E

Memory - 8 MEGABYTES


I may have some work coming up with a fair bit of 3d surfacing on aluminium parts and im curious as to how well the high speed machining worked or how much of a difference it will actually make on a machine thats 21 years old now, i dont mind paying for it if it is worth it.

The mill is in good shape now mechanically as i have spent some money recently getting in back into spec with new x & z ballscrews and all new bearing packs and support bearings on all axis 3

Any opinions welcome

Thanks
Marc

welcome back... I remember your posts from a few months back. Hope the new screws made the difference for you. I assume you did the thrust bearking kit and screw support bearing as well? Did you end up w/ a ball-bar test ?
Anyway- On your post:
What you ask is a bit more involved.
Is it worth it? Many different opinions around the net. search for 1000 block look ahead which is what the option was called on pre 2000 and vintage controllers as well as "HSM" by many.

That said, you will require the Coprocessor firmware version. "F" you have "N" for 'no floating point". See below for a sample manual reference and text noting the coprocessor requirement.

Now, you CAN obtain the Floating point version BIN file for your machine if you contact Haas. Some may have it floating around too.
but... you will need Haas to reload the new BIN file into the machine, or you burn the BIN file to a new PROM for the motherboard and install it by the manual dump-reload instructions posted around the forums. It is not something for the IT challenged IMO. You are essentially reloading the battery powered RAM OS w/ the new F version. then you need to relaod all the parameters. The F version on V10 F ROM requires min 2Mb ram CPU to run. The 9.63F can run w 1 Mb CPU boards.

This will RESET the spindle and Hours registers as well. They will revert to 0. take pics before if you want those values.

You will need to buy a Corprocessor for your CPU board. I've found them for $12 as 'pulls' from a source I can PM you if you need the source sometime. You then pop that into the CoPro socket on the CPU board.

Then you need to buy the HSM unlock code from Haas.

At the 800Hrs, he HAAS will lock-down until you call the HFO for yet another unlock code .... to ensure the Mill has been paid for. LOL. yeah. Not kidding.

sooooo.... With what you've spent, another 3 or 4K probably to have all that done w/ HFO support. Less if you attempt to do it yourself, but risk there is that you scramble and need to call em' anyway.

Per the VF manual re. option 315 parm 4.
https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam...english---vf-series-service-manual---2001.pdf

This parameter bit enables the High Speed Machining feature.
This parameter requires an unlock code in order to set the bit to
1. This option requires the Floating Point Co-Processor and
Floating Point software. If this option is turned on when nonfloating poi

PEace, GC

M K said:

I have a year 2000 haas vf0e

Spec
VER - M10.31N
MOCON - 11.00
00-09-22
Model - VF0E

Memory - 8 MEGABYTES


I may have some work coming up with a fair bit of 3d surfacing on aluminium parts and im curious as to how well the high speed machining worked or how much of a difference it will actually make on a machine thats 21 years old now, i dont mind paying for it if it is worth it.

The mill is in good shape now mechanically as i have spent some money recently getting in back into spec with new x & z ballscrews and all new bearing packs and support bearings on all axis 3

Any opinions welcome

Thanks
Marc

Click to expand...

reload from ROM to BBU RAM via DEbug.

Redirecting to https://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas-mills/291168-machine-lost-initialization.html

Some info here on using
Redirecting to https://www.emastercam.com/forums/topic/26002-look-ahead-in-haas/

Thanks for the info and replies

I just got the quote from Haas

They said no board changes or software updates required at all, just the unlock code

But it is £3385 gbp or for you guys $4700

The job isn’t big enough to warrant to expense currently so il put that idea back to bed

Also I don’t even think it’s that expensive as an option unlock on a brand new machine which will benefit more and work better with HSM than my 21 year old machine so probably not worth it anyway

Thanks
Marc

I wonder if you can barter with them? I mean, there leaving money on the table, not like anyone else is gonna buy up the option for YOUR 21yo machine before you do? Not exactly a sought after commodity.
May as well milk the cow one last time even if it’s only a half cup?

My local hfo says they can't do any deals on unlock codes. Not paying 2k+ for rigid tapping on my tm1. Just bought a few threadmills instead. Works great for my prototype needs.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Good to hear on that 10.15 code for allowable HSM but I do wonder on that and question it's capability to perform. Why on that more below.
This stuff is so old and most engineers who knew are gone or not allowed to post/comment on the firmware feature-creature (as I called in my old days). For the firmware I would question this a bit more if you have a contact that will chat or you know well- While you are V10.15 presently, the final V10 codebase F or N on the 10x space is 10.35 and requires a *Co-Processor. (*unless someone here can tell me for certain otherwise) Hearing your reply gives me hope that I don't need all the extra F stuff and Copro, and could simply turn HSM on? (or at minimum try the free option for a few hours.)

Now, I've heard rumors and seen posts long buried in forums from far away places about some versions of 10 where Haas tried no Copro required for HSM/ 1K block look ahead on some releases?
This is the issue I face regularly on these old ladies. What is true, real, or false info. If this is true, I then wonder how well it performs the read ahead and required math calcs....at early 90's tech Mhz speeds on a CPU that's solid, but it is all about the ability to manage a large running CPU and I/O stack. But that is for all for another day!

Why I care, is we run the TRT and 5 axis on our 98. from COR, no TPCP, DWO stuff... There is a LOT of math going on!! and it stutters w/ no HSM unless we play w/ our code a lot. getting old. The F BIN code w/ Co-Pro is on my list to try out soon. I do have a CPU board that is 10.15 and will prob. copy the ROM as a bin file just to save off.. but I have no clue what enhancements or rollbacks took place from 10.15 to 10.35 (for example, whether that F HSM 10.15 or 10.35 code will work w/ no co-pro in the socket?) see what I mean about creature or feature... you never know if it'll bite you or help you.
--- So to get to that level, someone would need to spend too much time ( I have none) running a CPU disassembler for the M68030 , attempt long hours of hex op-code review/untangle.... and it's just not that important to me :-)
I'll pop a copro in for $12 and rom up the OS reload and just run it. EET's know how to make Sh*t happen. Am I right. LOL. Someplace a crusty ol Engineer who taught me is hopefully smiling down. (Mr. DC cred)
Note to haas- We'd much rather have a 2018 - 2020 VF4 SS and not play with the damn 98 monthly but the Kid needs better money coming in the door to make that happen. I have also asked about old CPU OS 9 or 10x versions and what is real or not multiple times... so this felt like a bit of a place to unwind it a bit as your Question felt relevant and on-topic for this.

M K said:

Thanks for the info and replies

I just got the quote from Haas

They said no board changes or software updates required at all, just the unlock code

But it is £3385 gbp or for you guys $4700

The job isn’t big enough to warrant to expense currently so il put that idea back to bed

Click to expand...

This is an old topic, but I have a 98 VF0E with the HSM and it honks pretty good. It doesn't start stuttering until I hit around 150ipm on tight turns. Still holds pretty good tolerances (+.0015-.002) and the surface finish is just OK at that speed. Still night and day vs a non HSM machine.

Hi

My version is M10.31N not 10.15

I am also as dubious as you regarding if the haas uk person that replied to my question actually knows for sure if I do or don’t need a board update and firmware as you say,

I did enquire about paying a fee to try it out and re set the trial option hours but they said that is not possible!

The last thing I’d want to do is spend £3000 on an option to find out it makes hardly any difference! That would suck!

With regards to pricing and bartering them I did try, Haas uk told me the prices for options change monthly and are set by the main haas office and emailed across so all I can do is keep asking for a price every month to see if it changes

Thanks
Marc

Hi

Thanks for the reply, that’s good to know it is a worthwhile option in your Experian e and makes a night and day difference

Can you confirm what your software version and mocon version is?

For example mine is

VER M10.35
MOCON 11.00

Thanks
Marc

I have a 2018 VF4 and just got the HS milling code from Haas for 3250.00 in California

Sounds like this is not a dead-end for you decision wise. I hate to see you spend money and not get the results. Just a few points- The N in your software version id means No Copro. If it booted w/ a F (floating point) rather than an N it would have the necessary coprocessor and appropriate software on the board to run the 1K look ahead code and use the co-pro for math operations and HSM. I've not heard of any 10.3x that would run correct HSM as intended w/ 1K look-ahead (early HSM) w/o the F version? On many newer 68K CPU boards, the coPro was installed and actually soldered on. Seen it both ways. Socket and solder-on for the co-processor. So, you have a CPU board that definitely (IMO) would need the HFO to come reload the 10.31N with 10.31F minimum. Then you can input the code and it would actually do what it was meant to do.

I would challenge their assessment. It's printed directly in the manual that a co-pro is required for HSM/1K block look-ahead. Have them read this post and set me straight if I'm wrong for a 98 original motorola 68K CPU board.

Call the factory in CA. Explain that you need to validate something on an older machine. They will typically talk to you. Get an email, make them research it. If I'm wrong.. I'll learn something new here too! happy to be either as long as we have the correct info.

M K said:

Thanks for the info and replies

I just got the quote from Haas

They said no board changes or software updates required at all, just the unlock code

But it is £3385 gbp or for you guys $4700

The job isn’t big enough to warrant to expense currently so il put that idea back to bed

Click to expand...