I'm Looking at buying a Haas machine - VF0 or VF1 what are the best used versions

toolnuts · Dec 31, 2018

Hi all,

I'm looking at Haas mills in the late 1990s or mid to early 2000s.

I would like to keep the price below $20K.

What are the models and years to stay away from, and which should
I be looking for?

Are the controls all the same or are their some notable differences?

Is the documentation well written and easy to understand?

Do they include schematics?

How are the cost of parts?

How is the support in the Seattle area?

Thanks for the help.

Paul

wheelieking71 · Dec 31, 2018

People are sick of hearing it. But, I don't care:
There is zero control support for pre-2008 HAAS machines.
If you buy one, and the maincon board fails, it is a $20k repair bill to get that machine back in operational condition.
Just fair warning.

I have also recently seen where someone has stated HAAS has obsoleted the video driver boards as well.
Which I am sure will lead to the same $20k repair bill (upgrading the entire control the the earliest still supported version).

toolnuts · Dec 31, 2018

wheelieking71 said:
People are sick of hearing it. But, I don't care:
There is zero control support for pre-2008 HAAS machines.
If you buy one, and the maincon board fails, it is a $20k repair bill to get that machine back in operational condition.
Just fair warning.

I have also recently seen where someone has stated HAAS has obsoleted the video driver boards as well.
Which I am sure will lead to the same $20k repair bill (upgrading the entire control the the earliest still supported version).

I am not tired of hearing about it, and I thank you for your input.

I think that about spells DOOM for a Haas purchase.

Thanks again - Paul

plastikdreams · Dec 31, 2018

toolnuts said:
I am not tired of hearing about it, and I thank you for your input.

I think that about spells DOOM for a Haas purchase.

Thanks again - Paul

There are people out there repairing the boards for much less than the maincon upgrade. There are thousands of old Haas machines out there plugging away just fine and will do so for years...some people just don't like Haas.

D.D.Machine · Dec 31, 2018

Its not at all that we don`t like Haas ... " WE DO " That is the problem, we own Haas machines and Haas is making the choice to screw us over ..
Bottom line is well Haas is not the best machine made , up tell this crap with the control board and from what my HFO just told me its the Video board also ,, Haas was supporting there products good and there was a lot of people welling to support them in return ...

As for outside places repairing the control boards I keep reading about them but yet to find them.

At this point I have been looking into Centroid to retro fit the control if needed.

wheelieking71 · Dec 31, 2018

plastikdreams said:
There are people out there repairing the boards for much less than the maincon upgrade. There are thousands of old Haas machines out there plugging away just fine and will do so for years...some people just don't like Haas.

Please point me to somebody who can repair the board, then re-install the operating software.

And, like Duffy just said: I love my HAAS machines.
But, I do NOT love their business ethics. Therefore I choose to pursue brands that support their products past 10 years.
The sun-setting of Coldfire-I is a bullshit situation, and you know it.

plastikdreams · Dec 31, 2018

wheelieking71 said:
Please point me to somebody who can repair the board, then re-install the operating software.

And, like Duffy just said: I love my HAAS machines.
But, I do NOT love their business ethics. Therefore I choose to pursue brands that support their products past 10 years.
The sun-setting of Coldfire-I is a bullshit situation, and you know it.

I agree, I thought the original maincon pricing was a hell of a deal. It's obvious they have soured quite a few people and rightfully so. I can see where the guy in business for himself would want to do what's right to protect his current and future situations. 20k may not be much to some, but more times then not it's a solid hit to the gut and some might not be able to stomach it. Me personally, I think that if there's no support for the old controller why try to rape a guy for the upgrade. I've though it was bad business and really made no practical sense except for greed.

When I say "guys don't like Haas" I mean the company.

And no, Haas is not the best machine out there. But for what it does and what it costs, it's a damn good machine. And they still have the best controller ever, never understood why they don't sell to other machine builders...they'd make a second fortune

mhajicek · Dec 31, 2018

plastikdreams said:
And they still have the best controller ever, never understood why they don't sell to other machine builders...they'd make a second fortune

When you say that, which version are you referring to? I have a 2015 here that I'm rather fond of, but I hear a lot of people complaining about the NexGen forgetting offsets and such.

plastikdreams · Dec 31, 2018

mhajicek said:
When you say that, which version are you referring to? I have a 2015 here that I'm rather fond of, but I hear a lot of people complaining about the NexGen forgetting offsets and such.

I haven't used a next gen but from what I've read on here they have ironed out the bugs that plagued the early versions. Purely hearsay on my part.

wheelieking71 · Dec 31, 2018

plastikdreams said:
1)I agree, I thought the original maincon pricing was a hell of a deal.
2)It's obvious they have soured quite a few people and rightfully so.
3)I can see where the guy in business for himself would want to do what's right to protect his current and future situations. 20k may not be much to some, but more times then not it's a solid hit to the gut and some might not be able to stomach it. Me personally, I think that if there's no support for the old controller why try to rape a guy for the upgrade. I've though it was bad business and really made no practical sense except for greed.

When I say "guys don't like Haas" I mean the company.

And no, Haas is not the best machine out there. But for what it does and what it costs, it's a damn good machine. And they still have the best controller ever, never understood why they don't sell to other machine builders...they'd make a second fortune

1) Hell of a deal for who?! The shop owner that would rather just fix the single broken part? I think not.
2) Damn straight they have!
3) Way to back-pedal after your first reply to this thread.

Still waiting for you to point me to a reliable alternative for board-repair. Don't forget the board is worthless without the software.

Ever heard of Sequoia CNC?

plastikdreams · Dec 31, 2018

wheelieking71 said:
1) Hell of a deal for who?! The shop owner that would rather just fix the single broken part? I think not.
2) Damn straight they have!
3) Way to back-pedal after your first reply to this thread.

Still waiting for you to point me to a reliable alternative for board-repair. Don't forget the board is worthless without the software.

Ever heard of Sequoia CNC?

I'm just going by what I've heard on here on the repairs...no backpedaling here, you replied and I countered. It's hard to defend poor business practices but I do stand by that they are good machines even old. And no I have not heard of Sequoia CNC.

I'm on this board long enough to know you and dd have Haas machines and that you both were not happy with their them (the company). Be that as it may, I'm not in the position to feel that way as one I don't own a Haas of that vintage or any Haas for that matter. And, the Haas I work with is newer than 2008. Given what we know, I'd buy a newer machine and be done with it... until they stop supporting that one

wheelieking71 · Dec 31, 2018

plastikdreams said:
There are people out there repairing the boards for much less than the maincon upgrade.

Still waiting for you to point me to a reliable alternative for board-repair. Don't forget the board is worthless without the software.

Stirling · Dec 31, 2018

What software is needed when the boards are repaired?

The haas operating system?
Like software v 17.xxx xxx xxx ???
(Like on my 2006 and 2007 tm mills)

Or some other software in te background? The DOS operating system?

plastikdreams · Jan 1, 2019

wheelieking71 said:
Still waiting for you to point me to a reliable alternative for board-repair. Don't forget the board is worthless without the software.

Which part of the first line of post 11 did you not understand?

Speedie · Jan 1, 2019

Get the newest one you can with the least amount of hours. Shop until you do not feel that burn hole in your pocket then shop a little more and buy.

wheelieking71 · Jan 1, 2019

plastikdreams said:
Which part of the first line of post 11 did you not understand?

The part where you had no idea what you were talking about in post #4.

wheelieking71 · Jan 1, 2019

Stirling said:
What software is needed when the boards are repaired?

The haas operating system?
Like software v 17.xxx xxx xxx ???
(Like on my 2006 and 2007 tm mills)

Or some other software in te background? The DOS operating system?

Yes, when the maincon board is "fucked with" (as in for a repair where board level parts get replaced) the software is lost.
As of now, HAAS is the only source for re-installing that software.

I have been told there are ways to work around this and somehow save the software? I do not know WTF I am talking about enough to elaborate though.

One big reason nobody is taking on this project, and, the reason I mentioned Sequoia CNC:
If somebody does come up with a solution for this situation, HAAS will litigate them right out of business.
Sequoia used to sell a sweet gearbox rebuild kit for HAAS gearboxes. At that time, I think they charged about $900 for it?
And HAAS was fetching about $2k for a rebuilt unit. With a $2k core. And, it had to be installed by an HFO to get the warranty.
HAAS sued Sequoia, and pretty much put them under. And, their (HAAS's) gearbox almost immediately now could not be bought without the spindle motor.
And, the price went to $4500.

If somebody figures out how to move the HAAS software around, you can bet your ass history will repeat itself.

Mike1974 · Jan 1, 2019

OK, just a thought, what if you guys outfitted an "old obsolete" haas with a new centroid control? Just curious, yes I know it wouldn't be a "haas" anymore (technically) ..

thoughts? I've run a centroid and they are VERY capable IMO, so...

D.D.Machine · Jan 1, 2019

I have been looking into the Centroid and the GSK control ... I think GSK is the way to go , there just a china copy of Fanuc and from everything I have read about them there a good unit and there about half the cost of centroid ..

I have been looking into a centroid for a older lathe and its like 6k for all the stuff to go from a mits control. I do think that just swapping controls would be the best thing to do on the older Haas machines

*****************************
As for there Next-Gen control .. I have been running one for a couple months and for the most part its Bug free...

plastikdreams · Jan 1, 2019

wheelieking71 said:
The part where you had no idea what you were talking about in post #4.

Here's one in India: Lathe Machine - CNC Heavy Duty Vertical Lathe - Call 8826115485 | Rajshree Automation & CNC Services

Here's one out of ga: Haas Vector Drive repaired by Worldwide Industrial Solutions

And here is where I stop giving a fuck

We get you don't like Haas, you have enough posts about it to prove that. We know you are on the brother bandwagon, that's fine they are a great machine.

I'm Looking at buying a Haas machine - VF0 or VF1 what are the best used versions

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