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  1. #41
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    They make a lathe with air clamping on the turret? That's a new one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    They make a lathe with air clamping on the turret? That's a new one.
    Not really; I have a machine more than ten years old with this system.

    Actually the air does not directly clamp the turret. As I recall an air piston rotates a cam that pulls the turret back to lock it onto the dogs.

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    My matsuura has oil mist build into the air blast for spindle cleaning

    during a tool change,so iam guessing all my holders get a lite coat of oil applied?

    Tool number zero gets loaded(empty) at shut down, a clean paper towel

    gets inserted by hand,pulled at start up and used to clean spindle area.
    My 2 cents
    Gw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    The only real advantage of an air operated tool release is cost. Hydraulic is no more complicated. There is a cylinder and lines for both hydraulic and air. Hydraulic will have more pressure so the cylinder can be more compact. Hydraulic will not suffer from a drop in pressure like air will when there is a surge typically when changing tools and a spindle air blast is incorporated. Hydraulic is also a closed loop system, there are no contaminants introduced to the system by the compressed air system. I would say this fact alone makes hydraulic more reliable especially in shops that don't have air dryers and proper filtration.

    I have two Okuma lathes that use hydraulic systems to unclamp the turrets. One has air plumbed to it but only for an air blast to clear chips. Both can be operated with no air what so ever. Both turrets are quiet, smooth, and very fast. Can't say the same for my old Haas SL-10 that used air. It was clunky and loud.

    Also I have never had a hydraulic pump fail. But I do occasionally change the oil and filter if it has one.
    As someone who has worked on hydraulics extensively and built some complete systems for machines, I can tell you for sure that they are indeed more complicated and more expensive. I have seen many pumps, motors, lines, and valves fail.

    I still think it is a better system, but again cost is a big factor. I would at least like to see it on the more expensive units though. I really do love hydraulic systems, they are a great way to put power where you want it.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    They make a lathe with air clamping on the turret? That's a new one.
    Not sure exactly how it worked but it did use air to unclamp the turret. It wasn't a no lift turret either so it popped out quite a bit to clear the crown gear. A servo was used to index the turret. I had to have a tech remove the turret once because Haas used a large o-ring to seal it, coolant had swelled the o-ring, and it was causing a servo overload. Under the turret were a bunch of springs that we replaced too. The machine did have a hydraulic system but it was only used for the drawbar and tailstock.

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    Default Tool release too powerful (sometimes)

    This is a big problem I was on a two year old vf3 I ejected the face
    Mill if came out so hard and fast it snapped my distal bicep in two
    Eight weeks of of work plus operation not good has anybody else suffered an injury like mine it's common in the engineering world that the machines suffer from thermal expansion it tells you in the manual so why on earth are operators expected to put there hand in the machine to get the cutter out to change the tips

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupuscorp View Post
    I run a couple of haas mills vf0 and mini mills. Every now and then when you release a tool it seems like it just stores up a ton of pressure and then releases. Making my tool eject like a rocket from the spindle, causing a hazard to myself tool tool holder part and machine!
    How can I resolve this quickly or what am I doing wrong?

    This is a big problem I ejected a 125mm face mill it came out so hard and fast it snapped my distal bicep tendon two months of work no pay plus operation I know that machines can suffer from thermal expansion etc.. But why on earth are operators expected to put there hands underneath the spindle to take the tool out to change carbide tips there must be a better way I'm only a short guy you can't even wind the head towards you only lower it I pressed the tool eject button nothing happend pressed it again same thing pressed it a third time and bang

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    They make a lathe with air clamping on the turret? That's a new one.
    Answering a necro post - I had a Milltronics lathe (about 2001 or so) with a Dorian turret. The turret clamped by air. I had to jack up the shop air pressure to 120 psi to keep it from rotating out of position under heavy cuts. It was a PITA in general besides that.

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    I have put a piece of plywood covered in shop towels on the table and lowered the tool to within 3/4" or so before pushing tool release button, no body parts near tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trashcan26 View Post
    I have put a piece of plywood covered in shop towels on the table and lowered the tool to within 3/4" or so before pushing tool release button, no body parts near tool.
    I do something similar. I have a few wooden boxes, such as those the comm-block 7.62X39 comes in. Put in a couple of rags, shop towels etc. These are so handy, I made a bunch and use them to shuffle parts around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trashcan26 View Post
    I have put a piece of plywood covered in shop towels on the table and lowered the tool to within 3/4" or so before pushing tool release button, no body parts near tool.
    That makes sense good idea but should you you really have to do that
    You wouldn't drop a small drill/reamer or the probe for that matter
    It's not necessary on a hermle

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    Over three year old post guys.

    But seriously, keep the spindle bore clean and lubed and you won't have any issues. Might want to do a little weight lifting to prepare to be a machinist! LOL

    Have fun---Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by machineit2 View Post
    Over three year old post guys.

    But seriously, keep the spindle bore clean and lubed and you won't have any issues. Might want to do a little weight lifting to prepare to be a machinist! LOL

    Have fun---Mike
    Dude been doing this for 30 years never came across such a crap cheap built machine in my life thread may be three years old accident 6 months old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan price View Post
    That makes sense good idea but should you you really have to do that
    You wouldn't drop a small drill/reamer or the probe for that matter
    It's not necessary on a hermle
    You leave a probe in the spindle for a long time, and run it enough to get it nice and hot???? Please........

    I've found that a clean spindle, and really clean air goes a long way.

    Sure, things can be frustrating, and it's ALWAYS easier to blame someone or something else. Many times I've felt the same way - but in this case it's not all the machines fault - IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemike View Post
    You leave a probe in the spindle for a long time, and run it enough to get it nice and hot???? Please........

    I've found that a clean spindle, and really clean air goes a long way.

    Sure, things can be frustrating, and it's ALWAYS easier to blame someone or something else. Many times I've felt the same way - but in this case it's not all the machines fault - IMO.
    Dude I always clean the spindle lol you could say it's not the machines fault 1, look at above threads 2, was you there lol🤗

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    We try to be kind here. We are just offering practical advice that really does work.

    Good luck DUDE!

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    I get a tool pop on my VF2 and on my machine it's from the coolant getting soaked in coolant on a tool change. My coolant seems to drizzle when its shut off and dunks the tool holder in coolant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machineit2 View Post
    Over three year old post guys.
    LOL . . .
    So wisdom and experience times-out and is no good!! I'm always looking for that nugget regardless of age.

  21. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by machineit2 View Post
    Over three year old post guys.

    But seriously, keep the spindle bore clean and lubed and you won't have any issues. Might want to do a little weight lifting to prepare to be a machinist! LOL

    Have fun---Mike
    Bullshit. Our VF2 had tools sticking so badly overnight that I had to beat them out with a hammer. The tool changer arm would visably flex from trying to pull the tool out of the spindle so hard. And after replacing the spindle, the problem was still there. I cleaned, lubed, and greased the spindles on a regular schedule. Our two new2014 VF4s did the same thing shortly after we got them. It's a known Haas spindle design flaw, likely to do with them using poorly heat treated shit steel. I always changed to the same tool at the end of the day and removed it so the spindle would be empty and the same tool would go in the empty pot in the morning to eliminate confusion. I also posted a big sign on the machine with instructions to do so in the event that one of the idiots had to take over for me for some reason.

    On the other hand, it was still better than our Bridgeport gx480. That POS had regular toolchanger faults the entire time I was there. And no one could ever figure out what was wrong with it. At one point the springs in the tool change arm for the retaining button broke and it jammed. I took off the rear door to see what was wrong, and as soon as I poked it, it grabbed the tool and chucked it out the open door across the shop. Because allowing the tech to SLOW DOWN THE TOOL CHANGE wouldn't be a good idea or anything. Not to mention losing the tool location in the changer data on a regular basis, so I would have to stop and either manually delete and reprogram the entire tool table if the changer hadn't moved, or if it had, pull all the tools and replace them in order. I wrote a program just to cycle through all the tools just because it was such a frequent event.

    So yea, Haas = wishes it was a real mill. Bridgeport = wishes it was a Haas.

  22. #60
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    I know this is a 3 year old post but I have seen many ATC faults with pneumatic unclamp cylinders. With the Hardinge/Bridgeport systems it was usually a dirty muffler if you can believe that. The air could not exhaust quick enough from the cylinder to compress the belleville washers and knock the tool out of the spindle. When I took the muffler off it worked fine, put the muffler back on and it wouldn't unclamp. I have a customer with 19 GX machines running production and if the air pressure dropped below 80 psi, any machine that tried to do a tool change would time out and give an alarm. I suspect the same thing may happen on the Haas machines. Most of the ATC faults went away when they added the mufflers to the PM schedule.

    Another thing that will cause a tool to hang up is hydrolock when an orifice gets plugged on a tool with high pressure coolant. You will know this has happened when you get hit in the face with a blast of coolant when it breaks free.


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