This NEEDS an answer - LOCK Chuck on St-10

BruceWayne · Aug 13, 2018

Hello All,

For HAAS ST-10.

How can we prevent an operator from changing parts at the WRONG time. LOL

We have a M00 mid prg for chip clearing. However, you can when not paying attention open the chuck, remove the half completed part and install a new blank. AND then we have a nice crash.

I would think there should be a setting or M code which prevents the chuck from opening if your are "in prg". Same as it prevents the chuck from opening if it is turning.

A M00 is still "in prg". So I am hoping this is an easy one.

And yes, we had an operator find this out the hard way and ruin our bore bar.

Thanks,

Hazzert · Aug 13, 2018

Three or 4 more M00s should do it.. Make the operator confirm that they really (REALLY) want to continue the program.

Matt@RFR · Aug 13, 2018

Not a lathe guy, but it does seem like there would be a setting to lock out chuck clamp / unclamp during M0. I know we can't unclamp a tool in a mill during M0.

If no setting, maybe park the turret right in front of the part, then call M0. That way the operator coudn't remove the part even if he wanted to.

If they still screw the pooch on this, bolt a 12" knife blade on the turret same as a radial drill would be and park the turret as above. If the operator leans too far in, that motherfucker'll get stabbed in the chest! Check your local Safety and Health rule book for approval first though.

Hazzert said:
Three or 4 more M00s should do it.. Make the operator confirm that they really (REALLY) want to continue the program.

All that does is make the operator hit cycle start 5 times in a row, having never removed his head from his ass.

thesidetalker · Aug 13, 2018

I thought there was a way to do this, but it seems I was thinking of the parameter which allows you to run with spindle unclamped. (used when you bar-pull) Maybe call your HFO on this?

Matt@RFR said:
All that does is make the operator hit cycle start 5 times in a row, having never removed his head from his ass.

Bingo.

Matt@RFR said:
If no setting, maybe park the turret right in front of the part, then call M0. That way the operator coudn't remove the part even if he wanted to.

That's a pretty good idea.

Otherwise, I would suggest if you have an extra tool available to take a cut in air where the new stock could be and set your tool load limit really low. That way the spindle will load up slightly and alarm out with an overload condition.

CGornet · Aug 13, 2018

Even Batman can't get good help these days. What's the world coming to!?

SeymourDumore · Aug 13, 2018

BruceWayne said:
A M00 is still "in prg". So I am hoping this is an easy one.

Well, I am not exactly against having an easy to flip option to disable the chuck opening, but it better not be permanently hard wired as I also use M00
for a single program running front and back of the same part.

And yes, I have met your operators :toetap:

Hazzert · Aug 13, 2018

Operator hits cycle start at part loading, makes a part til the multiple m00. Does w/e task instructed in the code and hits the button a couple times to continue.

Vs

Operator unloads the part accidentally at M00 loads a fresh blank at multiple M00, hits cycle start and... nothing happens.

If he crashes the machine at that point after reading the M00 comment code fire his ass.

BruceWayne · Aug 14, 2018

Thanks for the ideas.

We did contact HFO. There is no setting or M code that will prevent the chuck from opening, as long as its not spinning.

The multiple M00 is OK.

We parked the turret in front of the part. You cant get it out

So that works in this case. But often we are doing a bore gage check, so it would not work in that case.

A huge knife in the turret sounds good

HAAS HFO did recommend a possible solution to use the IO and available M codes to disconnect and reconnect the foot pedal. With our controller that seems to be the best solution. HAAS implied the newest controller could do this, but we never finished that conversation as we have the prior gen. I actual like this idea. Its a few hours work, but it would accomplish the goal of NO OPEN in prg, Period! You would hope, the dumb can be so creative!

Thanks,

Sean the Dog · Aug 14, 2018

I remember taping a washer over the button to open the chuck on a job I did years ago. Had to use M36 in MDI to open the chuck. Removed any chance of mistakes.

DMF_TomB · Aug 14, 2018

Hazzert said:
Three or 4 more M00s should do it.. Make the operator confirm that they really (REALLY) want to continue the program.

.
2nd MO
ARE YOU SURE THEIR IS NOT A BLANK PART IN CHUCK ?
ONLY CLEAR CHIPS DO NOT LOAD ANOTHER PART
.
or something like that usually works

SIM · Aug 14, 2018

We used to call that "Idiot Proofing".
No such thing...
I was able to find and hire better idiots.

You can't beat stupid, they have way more practice.

I used to run lots of jobs with back to back operations in one machine.
Flip part in chuck or collet. Or two vises in mill, "A" Vise did Op 1, B Vise did Op 2...a light debur while running and parts went into the done box.

After awhile I found it was easier to Run Op 1 till completion, then move onto Op 2 for completion...could be in same machine or multiple machines.

In the long run...it just saved time, money and aggravation.

If by some reason your running with Door Safety off on that lather. I highly suggest you do not go with keeping turret close to spindle as a way to deter flipping your work part. Stupid mistake of hitting green leaves little time to pull a hand that does not belong in that area away.

DMF_TomB · Aug 14, 2018

shit happens. make 10,000 parts and usually make a few mistakes.
.
i often magic marker parts as i put them in backwards on 2nd op cause not marked
.
had job install bolts so part secured to fixture better. operator did restart before counterboring and counter bore tried to counterbore bolts already in the holes.
.
just added a 2nd
M0
COUNTERBORING IS NEXT DO NOT HAVE BOLTS IN THE HOLES

Booze Daily · Aug 14, 2018

We used to put a block of wood under the foot pedal. Use M code to chuck/unchuck.
Also works good when you're running parts on a fixture.

DMF_TomB · Aug 14, 2018

shit happens when operator tired and making 1000's of parts faster and faster who hasnt made a mistake ??
.
extra 2nd M0 with extra warnings, take what a whole 30 seconds to add ??

SIM · Aug 14, 2018

DMF_TomB said:
shit happens when operator tired and making 1000's of parts faster and faster who hasnt made a mistake ??
.
extra 2nd M0 with extra warnings, take what a whole 30 seconds to add ??

Yes if thousands of parts and one oops that is not so bad...if just a cheap part and an insert.

But if an expensive casting, a several hundred dollar indexable drill gets destroyed or the hit whacks machine out of true...it can be a pricey mistake.

Yes an extra M0 can work...sometimes that operator will push and Read that instruction and your save the day due to a 2nd MO....sometimes the operator just learns the habit of hitting green twice.

I know only after a few cycles while setting up a job I was double clicking the green to go.

david n · Aug 14, 2018

I have a part that needs the same "protection" from the operator..............

'bout a 12" thin walled tube part............

Hide foot pedal around the side of machine.(this is crucial)
Load part and hold in place.
Press cycle start.
M10(clamp)
M00
Close door.
Cycle start.
Turn/bore.
Pull
M00
Install plug for tailstock support.
Close door
Cycle start
Tailstock advance
Finish turn/knurl
Tailstock retract
M11(unclamp)
M30

I did it that way because it was way too easy to unclamp the part when installing the plug for the tailstock.

YdnaD · Aug 17, 2018

You know what I do when an operator has this problem (even I run into it from time to time, if I'm listening to headphones) I move the chuck pedal like 3 feet to the side of where it normally sits. This way you really have to TRY to actuate the chuck. It's definitely not foolproof but it's a tiny level of protection..

Spruewell · Aug 17, 2018

david n said:
I have a part that needs the same "protection" from the operator..............

'bout a 12" thin walled tube part............

Hide foot pedal around the side of machine.(this is crucial)
Load part and hold in place.
Press cycle start.
M10(clamp)
M00
Close door.
Cycle start.
Turn/bore.
Pull
M00
Install plug for tailstock support.
Close door
Cycle start
Tailstock advance
Finish turn/knurl
Tailstock retract
M11(unclamp)
M30

I did it that way because it was way too easy to unclamp the part when installing the plug for the tailstock.

You may want to add a 2 or 3 second “dwell” in there after the chuck close so the operator can’t accidentally double-tap the go button while his hand is still holding onto the part

This NEEDS an answer - LOCK Chuck on St-10

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