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NEW HAAS ST10 Tolerances and Tool Offsets Drifting

Colin Heath

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 11, 2017
Hello All,

I have a new ST10 installed and only done around 20 hours in it. I have service coming in multiple times to look at issues but wondered if anyone had experienced the same thing.

Cut a few jobs in beginning and was 0.1 to 0.2mm over size and sometimes under size. Thought it was me putting ‘in computer’ in CAM settings and appeared resolved.

Realised later that when probing tools the offset for X could drift up to .04mm and called HAAS in.

It appeared to only happen after after machine sat for a few day so they changed probe suspecting it was sticking.

Still same issue so thought maybe home reference was out and changed that.

Ran some parts today and first was spot on within 5 Micron, next part 0.1mm under size and next 0.15.

Reprobed and it then shifted 180 Micron!

Service are coming back to look again and feels like either encoder is faulty or mechanical movement somewhere.

Wondered if anyone else had similar please and may help steer us in right direction.

I disconnected thermal compensation probe under instruction today but that didn’t return it back to where it should be.
 
Does your machine have automatic touchoff?

Are you auto touching off your tools during every cycle? They're generally not that accurate and should only be used to get a starting value.
 
Riffing on Orange - contact tool setters are subject to getting chips stuck to them, or as happened to me, residue from coolant/oil/pickling, etc. (I had a tool that probed 0.022 different between a VF5 tool probe and my offline tool setter. ???? Clean VF5 tool probe - now the difference is in the 10ths, and checking against a known surface with a gauge block tool length is accurate to a tenth. In short, cleaning the muck off the tool setting probe improved it's accuracy by 200x...)
 
Does your machine have automatic touchoff?

Are you auto touching off your tools during every cycle? They're generally not that accurate and should only be used to get a starting value.

Thanks for the reply. Pissed off I spent 3k on an option thats not accurate! What is the point of probe if it can't repeat properly? Mine is driving 30-40 Micron so don't think thats normal. When I use renishaw probe in my mill it is precise. Thanks for filling me in.

Riffing on Orange - contact tool setters are subject to getting chips stuck to them, or as happened to me, residue from coolant/oil/pickling, etc. (I had a tool that probed 0.022 different between a VF5 tool probe and my offline tool setter. ???? Clean VF5 tool probe - now the difference is in the 10ths, and checking against a known surface with a gauge block tool length is accurate to a tenth. In short, cleaning the muck off the tool setting probe improved it's accuracy by 200x...)

Well the problem is not only is the probe pretty useless, the size changes by 0.1mm without even probing tools just inaccuracy in the machine. They have disconnected thermal probe etc and still can't hold tolerance.

I am finishing parts with a Chinese lathe which says it all really!

I have now found 0.03 - 0.04 deflection at the chuck when I put a bar in there and move by hand so that may explain one of the issues.

This machine has only double digit cutting hours so will not be using them when looking to replace my mill as not only has a problem occurred so early (I know this can happen on any machine) but also waiting too long for service to put this right.

Certainly would not recommend to a new setup looking to get going as this could have bankrupt me had I not done other work such a s fabrication also to keep money coming in.
 
As mentioned above any tool probes I have used (In Victors, Doosans and Leadwells)over time are only good for getting you close. You still have to dial it in with test cuts. Does it hold once it's warmed up and run a few parts? I will often see .05mm change in diameters between first part and third or fourth.
 
As mentioned above any tool probes I have used (In Victors, Doosans and Leadwells)over time are only good for getting you close. You still have to dial it in with test cuts. Does it hold once it's warmed up and run a few parts? I will often see .05mm change in diameters between first part and third or fourth.

Thanks for reply, it does sort of hold but is different every time so it may be under size one day and over the next. I then dial in wear offset and get it on size but will then a few parts later it’s wrong again.
 
Does the chuck move 0.03 to 0.04 mm? (30microns = 0.001" - seems a lot) or does it move 0.030"? Which would be in the whoa baby category!

Yes it is 0.03 - 0.04 mm so quite a lot for a new machine I think. Checked on somebody ST20 round the corner and there’s is worn and only moves 0.01 so think I have an issue.

I have HAAS engineers coming back Tuesday with Ball Bar, alignment kit etc so they can start trying to find fault.

Still doesn’t explain probe moving all over place though. They said they will sometimes see up to 10-12 Micron but 20-60 Micron shouldn’t be happening but with new probe and still same issue sounds like the probe arm to me
 
From what I've heard, as far as lathes go, Haas makes a decent VMC.

Haha oh dear! I’ve seen them run stupid hard on incomes, duplex and lots of other hard materials and the company runs them seriously hard, so that’s why I went for one.

They hold 0.02 all day Lind so hoping it’s an issue that can be resolved I’m im a happy buyer
 
I am sure your issues will be worked out. Haas lathes are good in my opinion.

Tool setters do have problems most often there is something that goes on with them that cause headaches. One thing I have seen a number of times is when they get banged up. One would think this could be avoided. I am just glad no one got banged up with them.

Moving your finishing tools out a bit oversized is the variation consistent or floating?
 
Tool setters are not 100% on any machine. They are a reference point, no different then using a piece of paper.

You're supposed to set your tool, then take a cut smaller then your final size. We generally go about 0.0300" above our finish size, reduce to finish size after measuring and adjust the tool offsets as needed during production.

This looks like user inexperience vs a machine issue.
 
Also do not disconnect the thermal comp but get it dialed in, run a warmup cycle, maybe a few false parts and the machines will cut and repeat all day to .02, getting to .01, I do need to keep an eye on it, keep it running during lunch. But they hold from my oldest SL-10 to the newest ST-10.

I did have an issue with my 1st SL-10 and thermal compensation. It was way off and had to be monitored closely as it would make abrupt changes. Speaking with Haas Ca. they walked me in closer and closer till it was start up, warm up and just run all day.
 
I am sure your issues will be worked out. Haas lathes are good in my opinion.

Tool setters do have problems most often there is something that goes on with them that cause headaches. One thing I have seen a number of times is when they get banged up. One would think this could be avoided. I am just glad no one got banged up with them.

Moving your finishing tools out a bit oversized is the variation consistent or floating?

Thanks for the reply, the error increases as I run but sometimes quickly and other times more gradual. Engineers have been today and think they have found issue around thermal compensation probe. Errors have decreased since removing (could clearly see difference during ball bar test.

They still have to turn probe off in parameters as it’s still tweaking things with probe disconnected.
 
Also do not disconnect the thermal comp but get it dialed in, run a warmup cycle, maybe a few false parts and the machines will cut and repeat all day to .02, getting to .01, I do need to keep an eye on it, keep it running during lunch. But they hold from my oldest SL-10 to the newest ST-10.

I did have an issue with my 1st SL-10 and thermal compensation. It was way off and had to be monitored closely as it would make abrupt changes. Speaking with Haas Ca. they walked me in closer and closer till it was start up, warm up and just run all day.

The engineers have been in today to test machine and found thermal probe was compensating all over place. They have disconnected and will turn off in parameters to confirm it’s the issue.

I think you’re right though that long term it needs replacing as it’s there for a reason.

Hopefully confirm issue tomorrow and can sort it
 
Tool setters are not 100% on any machine. They are a reference point, no different then using a piece of paper.

You're supposed to set your tool, then take a cut smaller then your final size. We generally go about 0.0300" above our finish size, reduce to finish size after measuring and adjust the tool offsets as needed during production.

This looks like user inexperience vs a machine issue.

Thanks for input, it is a
Confirmed machine issue by their engineers and can drift by nearly 0.3mm Occasionally.

I agree though I am still adjusting my expectations moving from manual machining to CNC.
 
I have a new ST15 with probing and it works great ,, probe gets me in the .002 of a inch ballpark and then I can comp it in after making a couple parts,, same as every lathe I have ever worked on, once its warmed up it holds .0002 all day and I just need to comp for tool wear,
 
Well I thought we had it solved but now cutting 0.3 to 0.4mm out of tolerance and totally inconsistent.

They have tried software, disconnecting thermal comp sensor, ball bar tested and still no good.

Machine that was meant to make me profit is making me losses.

Will be getting rid of this first chance I get as I think it’s a Friday machine
 
Update, totally clean install of software seems to have solved sizing issues (for now).

But as the machines getting old now (40 hours) the screen is now
Dodgy.

I think a bloody Chinese lathe would have been been better than this.
 








 
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