Old VF Vector/Spindle Drive to Motor drive ohm checks. (follow up thread)
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    Default Old VF Vector/Spindle Drive to Motor drive ohm checks. (follow up thread)

    Posting up onto a new thread for this as it does raise some great opportunity for a Troubleshooting thread for the Spindle & Motor PS Vector Drive assy. Essentially, Mine went poof! Fault light. Smelly stink. And it's out for repair. ...but what externally may have help cause it?

    What does it prove? Some tests below seem to indicate that I did not find any direct short or intermittent short/fault among the wires to the motors, the motor drives, and the 380 VDC connections. Of course these are just dry ohm tests but it's a start and makes me a bit more confident that I did not take a hard harness, or drive failure to ground (which could fry the spindle drive assy. which is where this all started).

    (was Anyone have a spare Old-Style 15/20HP Spindle Drive unit to sell? )

    final post from Hoss710:
    1 thing many people dont know or realize, is the vector spindle driver creates the power for the axis drivers. I have had X axis cables go bad and smoke the vector drive. it's a common problem. so if it were me is pull the front Y axis cover and take a peek for both chip issues ( they can cut the X axis cable) or cracked insulation on the X axis cable. you can also check your 3 X axis wires to ground to see if their is any short to ground. if you want to check for any shorts between the 3 legs, unscrew the connector at the motor end, and remove the wires off of the driver . then check for continuity between the 3 legs.

    PIC BELOW for folks if needed for reference.

    CHECKS/TESTS PERFORMED
    1) XYZ Motor wire OHM outs XYZ.
    -removed motors wires from drive.
    -Between all lines, 1.1 ohms.
    - From Motor harness line to GND- all OPEN.

    2) Drive terminal tests: Red/White/Blk OHM tests on screw connects (wires removed). (NEW STYLE)
    - 3+ Meg Ohms across all three drives all terminals.
    - OL (open or infinity) Rd/Wht/Bk terminal to GND.
    (nothing shorted internally).

    3) The Q for ya'll- The Z still has an old style Goldie drive. (wires removed)
    - 110K-112K ohms across terminal to terminal test.
    (Anyone know if this is OK?)

    - OL/Open between drive terminal and GND.

    4) XYZ Drive 380VDC hook ups. All OPEN lug to lug. and OL/Open on REd/Blk Lug to GND. (the bottom parallel where you connect the drives to the 380VDC.

    5) Spindle Motor tests: (honestly not my area)... .5 Ohms lead to lead. OPEN LEad to GND.

    IF you think of anything I missed.. please let me know.

    Upon DRIVE return from R&R: Will pull Y front cover and X cover on motor side and check ohms and cables. While yanking and moving cables around also. We have redone the way covers and cleaned out chips everywhere. Pretty comfy there... but- Harness and chips and intermittent's are found by ripping & inspecting, wiggle and jiggle w/ Meter, and just replace stuff. :-) Over all- Who knows. Wish I could just get something that ran w/ confidence.


    vfdrives.jpg
    Last edited by countryguy; 01-09-2020 at 12:27 PM. Reason: pic

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    OK... The Spindle Drive repaired under Warranty will be here tomorrow. I've done about all the dry / Ohm checks I can think of. I wondered if folks knew a few other things I could check on the actual Motor? It's a 98. 7K RPM. .5 home checks accross the 3 leads. Open to ground.

    Note- When it failed and stunk up everything.. the 380VDc lights were all still green on the axis drives. Spindle was not even running.... But I did a bunch of checks there as well..

    What else can i try or test b4 a real power back up? OR even under power. I have a o-Scope, meters, and can follow directions! ;-) lemme' know folks. TIA

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    the green light on the axis drivers I believe is the logic voltage. +12v, 0v, -12v. I believe you get the red light if your missing the 380vdc. or if there is a blown fuse. I have the driver print stashed somewhere in my notes.on the early white box vectors the fans were notorious for failing and cooking the drives. we would carry spairs on our trucks. it was the first thing we checked when on a call with a machine with a vector drive. also check your regen resistors up top on the back right of the power cabinet facing the controller. they to are known for giving up the goat.

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    Don't you need to use a "megger" to properly test spindle drive leads.
    It is my understanding that a simple continuity test will not always reveal faulty conductors/insulation.
    Or shorted motor windings.

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    Thanks Guy's! This forum has really been rock'n w/ you guys helping us out! TY from myself personally.

    Hoss, if you have anything doc wise would LOVE to get that... but we need to get ya onto a PC... Not the phone. LOL . Thanks on the Motor drive lights green/red sts. It all went south so fast.. I'll ensure I really look things over!
    Will check the fans too. Lst I recall they were spinning. 2 on top and 1 on bottom...

    Mr. King. Will check on Megger and Motor checks. Good to know! Thanks.

    Onwards! The kid has a project to cut ASAP.

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    yeah.. here's a good vid on motor testing w/ a Megger! Can always justify buying new test gear!
    YouTube

    ...and the now inbound 'megger' tester. While I cannot afford the 200-900 items, this has good reviews and should fit the bill.
    Digital Insulation Resistance Tester, BTMETER BT-6688B with Test Voltage 5000V, Insulation Resistance 200G ohms, High Voltage Indication: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryguy View Post
    yeah.. here's a good vid on motor testing w/ a Megger! Can always justify buying new test gear!
    YouTube

    ...and the now inbound 'megger' tester. While I cannot afford the 200-900 items, this has good reviews and should fit the bill.
    Digital Insulation Resistance Tester, BTMETER BT-6688B with Test Voltage 5000V, Insulation Resistance 200G ohms, High Voltage Indication: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

    Hey CountryGuy, Are you up and running again?

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    White Drive unit was on the porch yesterday.I am feeling chicken-xxht to put it in and power her up again. Same story over and over... but what can ya do but check and fix what ya can control. I hope we're in a good place. The Son is on his way up now. We're going to talk about what to check or do next. All my Ohm checks seem good. The Megger is on order, will be here tomorrow. So maybe we'll just spend today reviewing 'stuff' and possibly pulling the X cover over the motor. Checking Z a bit more... We just did Y and cleaned and checked the harness.. blahblah blah. I HOPE he's making chips and pushing flood by next week!
    Thanks for checking in! Hope your rebuild is going well too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tryhard View Post
    Hey CountryGuy, Are you up and running again?

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    UP AND RUNNING! Thanks all. SPindle warm up and drive warm ups all seem fine. The kid is digging into CoR and 3+2 testing.. TGIF!

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    Great news!!!

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    It just SMOKED again..... We're rippign it out now. Actually found a Surface Mount Cap that fell out the bottom and onto the platform as well. (something got pretty darn hot or it had been bouncing around in there? Crap!

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    I know very little about Haas, but when you have a spindle drive/motor problem you need a megger. Not having and using a megger is a great way to waste a ton of time and money.

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    Update: She smoked out and faulted again.
    We pulled the Drive and the cover off the Drive unit. The VF ran for about 5 hours. We ran a warm up pgm earlier in the day. a few times he went Jogging around as we tested some distances on workholding'. The machine was sitting idle. Nothing else running.

    Seems like something in Spindle Motor output area failed...
    Here is a non-haas print that's been shared around for years. Close enough to help map this to Spindle drive section.
    Here is the full PDF. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ix...spPd9rPLWyljdt ) PAge 2 JPG image below.

    (pic below) The Part that fell out, C61, is from J11, and C60 from J12 browned and toasty. Semiconductor wise: a VR Diode popped between the black IC type modules on J11. The output of J11/12 and J9/10 on page 2 show they end up on the A' B' C' motor connection lugs. Ohm'ed that part out. Seems right.
    BUT... what's it all mean? Something external must be causing this now... 2nd time it's done this and 2x time repaired externally.

    MEGGER test of the motor? (cheap import.. but seems to work well enough). I did the test right from the 3 cables where they connect to the drive? Do I need to get all the skins off again and get up top?

    500V insulation test - all 3 leads. 1.96 to 2 GigOhm. All three leads read nearly identical.
    1000V insulation test - All 3 least. 1.87-1.9 GigOhms. All three leads read nearly identical.
    Did not perform the 2500 or 5000v insulation tests but can.

    Pastwork included pulling all the top spindle skins/covers for gear-change faults. (did sol. air hole drill outs for gear change)... We were up there making a bit of a mess. Other than the MEgger test, Not sure what else we can check or should do next?


    Pic sheet 2- relv. section
    page2vector.jpg

    Pic Failed section.
    img-3416.jpg

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    I have found nearly all the cooked parts at this point... All on order. and 2 new fans...

    If anyone thinks that Megger test is OK from last post above.. let me know. My first time on that type of work..Motor world is new to me.


    As we sat around wondering WTF- I did put in a spare MOCON board last fall to test it. I did leave it installed. I wonder if that could be an issue? Something in a rev/firmware mis-match? Anyway- Going to put the original MOCON back in.

    Failure review: On the spdinle Drive circuit- 1/3 of the spindle drive section seems to have been repaired previously w/ new parts (which did not fail yesterday). New cap's and a zener diode. The smoked parts are OEM and tantalum cap and SMD zener. Just odd....

    A lot of these parts are no longer available on the Mitsubishi or Powerex IGBT's and power rectifiers. I can find as NOS. I'm just wondering if I drop the $200 and just replace the 3 output IGBT's while I'm in there w/ NOS. (new old stock). We just want to get it repaired right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryguy View Post
    I have found nearly all the cooked parts at this point... All on order. and 2 new fans...

    If anyone thinks that Megger test is OK from last post above.. let me know. My first time on that type of work..Motor world is new to me.


    As we sat around wondering WTF- I did put in a spare MOCON board last fall to test it. I did leave it installed. I wonder if that could be an issue? Something in a rev/firmware mis-match? Anyway- Going to put the original MOCON back in.

    Failure review: On the spdinle Drive circuit- 1/3 of the spindle drive section seems to have been repaired previously w/ new parts (which did not fail yesterday). New cap's and a zener diode. The smoked parts are OEM and tantalum cap and SMD zener. Just odd....

    A lot of these parts are no longer available on the Mitsubishi or Powerex IGBT's and power rectifiers. I can find as NOS. I'm just wondering if I drop the $200 and just replace the 3 output IGBT's while I'm in there w/ NOS. (new old stock). We just want to get it repaired right.
    Were your regenerators (stove burners) getting warm at all?

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    That's a great point. Too many things going on. Regen is on my list now. My Son was there... I was not at the time. I did Ohm them out from the suggestions here. They measured 8.5 or 8.6 Ohms. Never got feedback if ok from folks but seems ok.

    Here's Haas Parts for my SN. parts.haascnc.com
    Replacement is 93-1042G and 8.6Ohms / 6 resister style. (where my OEM 98 unit is 5 large ceramics). I think I'm ok w/ the physical nature of the regen box...? ? ? ?

    The check-list from Haas. Does not seem to cover my old 5 resistor unit. To old IMO.
    Regen Assembly - Replacement - AD0279

    I will get the parts replaces and get it back into the unit. I'm really interested about the regen packs and if they get warm or not?

    any other thoughts ... keep em' coming.
    CG.

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    out of curiosity, does this machine have delta/wye contractors?

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    Call Rich @ NMTS Repair service and parts for your haas machine tools parts & field service

    You generally wont get an answer on the first try. But, he always returns calls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    out of curiosity, does this machine have delta/wye contractors?
    Isn't that a direct-drive 12k spindle thing? I think countryguy's machine is a std. belt-drive 7500rpm machine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Isn't that a direct-drive 12k spindle thing? I think countryguy's machine is a std. belt-drive 7500rpm machine?
    Idk, my machine is a 98 with 7500 rpm belt drive and Delta wye. No gearbox though.

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