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Overhauling counterbalance and rebuild thread: full parts list and procedures

abbeyroad1124

Plastic
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Top post has the parts list. Procedure and pictures in the comments.


Hydraulic seals from herculesus.com:

I ordered different styles and two of each in case I messed one of them up or changed my mind. I decided on the ones with the "square o-ring" style:


U18-0.75-31B
P187-00.750-312B
U18-0.37-SQB
PB12-112-037-SC
612-112-037



Recharging tools:

1. "High-Pressure Inflating Connection Schrader 1/8 In NPT Male, Manufactured by:Amflo, Toolsource #:106074, Manufacturers Part #:556, Also Known As:AM556"
from
Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies.

2. "JGB Enterprises-A171-1004-0048 JGB-JFlex Hydraulic Hose, 1/4"x4', Male NPT x Male NPT Connection, 1-Wire, 3265 psi, Black"
from
https://www.amazon.com/JGB-JFlex-Hydraulic-Hose-Connection-1-Wire/dp/B0107O99DC

3. Smallest welding Argon/Nitrogen bottle from any welding supply shop. I used Argon.

4. "Legines NPT Reducing Coupling Brass 1/4" Female x 1/8" Female, Hex Reducer Coupler Adapter Pipe Fitting 1200psi (Pack of 2)"
from
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07486QJKK


Refilling with oil:

1. Measuring cup
2. Vinyl tube to syphon the oil in/out.
3. Mobile DTE25, ISO 46: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VDRP8Q


Hydraulic hose from DiscountHydraulicHose.com:

R1-04-ASB | 1/4" SAE 100R1AT Hydraulic Hose Assembly
both fittings: MPX-04-04
90 inches total length for 1996 VF-Oe

(You will appreciate the swivel fittings -- these make assembly much easier.)


Manifold block (stainless cube thing):

1. ASHCROFT "Gauge, Pressure, 0 to 1000 psi, 304 SS" Zoro #: G8516444 Mfr #: 251009SW02L1000#
Ashcroft 251009SW02L1000# $81.64 Gauge, Pressure, 0 to 1000 psi, 304 SS | Zoro.com

(Note that this is a 1% accurate gauge. There is no 1% gauge under 2½ inches diameter.)

2. Haas SWITCH, PRESSURE 750 PSI 8975

3. "Fitting UNF 7/16-20 ORB-04 Female to Pipe 1/4� NPT Male Gauge Adapter"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H6DJ213/

You need to machine the UNF adaptor on a small Lathe as per instructions in the comments.


Blocking the head:

8" charlotte coupling, for example https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/429-080-8-schedule-40-pvc-coupling.html


Misc Consumables:

1. Loctite 1265769 Pipe Sealant.
2. JB Weld 2-part
3. zip ties
4. cotter pins
5. Permatex 56521 thread seal.
6. 3" hole saw for metal
 
Removal:

Removal of the hydraulic cylinder and reservoir bottle is described in the service manual.

You can use the Charlotte/PVC adaptor to block the head since it is only 10-20 bucks. It is bad to put pressure on the spindle bearings.

To remove the reservoir bottle do as follows:

1. Remove one screw from the top right of the reservoir shroud and replace without its washer.
2. Remove the remaining three screws. The shroud will swing anti-clockwise a little.
3. Lift the shroud over the last screw.


Draining / Refilling:

The 4' hydraulic hose doubles as a drainage tool. The service manual specifies the amount of refill fluid you will need. I was able to refill the precise amount by using a clear vinyl tube that I was able to force down the 1/4" open hole in the top of the reservoir after removing the 90" hose. I used syphoning. It took a whole day to drain 2 quarts of fluid down the vinyl tybe into the reservoir.

( objectivelyspoken.com/uploads/refill.jpg )
refill.jpg

Dissassembling the hydraulic cylinder+piston

To remove the nuts at either end is very difficult if they have been in there for 20 years. I made this tool below and used a deep socket and an impact wrench to remove the nuts without damage. There is pretty much no other way to get these off as far as I can tell.

( objectivelyspoken.com/uploads/spanner.jpg )
spanner.jpg
 
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Replacing the piston seals

The seals are very difficult to get off and even more difficult to get back on. I can't even say I have good advise. I blistered my knuckle forcing the seal on and I have extremely strong hands. If you know of a tool, please comment. Here are the different varieties:

( objectivelyspoken.com/uploads/seals.jpg )
seals.jpg


Overhauling the manifold cube

The newer style Haas pressure switch has a different thread. For the adaptor:

1. JBWeld it into the manifold cube. It won't seal otherwise because it is not tapered, and,

2. Machine a small recess for the pressure switch's o-ring to fit into the adaptor. I used my lathe to do this. If you don't have a lathe perhaps thread sealer will hold.

I used the white thread-seal for the refill connectors and the red thread-seal for the thread on the dial.

I used a hole saw to cut a recess in the shroud:

( objectivelyspoken.com/uploads/dial.jpg )
dial.jpg

The adaptor needs a small internal chamfer machined to accommodate the o-ring. Here it is prior to machining:
( objectivelyspoken.com/uploads/adaptor.jpg )
adaptor.jpg
 
Some other tips:

I have a suspicion that the piston can trap some air which leaks out over time. This can result in a slight drop in pressure over the first few days. Not really sure. There do not seem to be any fluid leaks for me.

The pressure in the reservoir seems to vary about 1 psi per degree Fahrenheit (very roughly). So check the room temperature before you assume that there is a leak.
 
Awesome thread and great information that you shared. How has this gone so long without a like or comment?

I'm researching retrofitting my 2004 VF-2 with the counterbalance system. In another thread, we got to discussing which Z axis amplifier someone's machine should have had and I discovered that the post-counterbalance machines were supposed to have 45A amplifiers on the Z instead of the 30A.

Without a counterbalance, the Z axis on my VF-2 is right around 50% sitting still. I can either get a bigger amplifier to handle that abuse or I can balance the system. Balance seems like a much better option.
 
Awesome thread and great information that you shared. How has this gone so long without a like or comment?

I'm researching retrofitting my 2004 VF-2 with the counterbalance system. In another thread, we got to discussing which Z axis amplifier someone's machine should have had and I discovered that the post-counterbalance machines were supposed to have 45A amplifiers on the Z instead of the 30A.

Without a counterbalance, the Z axis on my VF-2 is right around 50% sitting still. I can either get a bigger amplifier to handle that abuse or I can balance the system. Balance seems like a much better option.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the axis sitting at 50% load stationary, that's pretty normal for non-counterbalanced vertical axis.

I also wouldn't recommend fitting a counterbalance to an axis that wasn't originally designed to have one - you will probably have to limit the rapid speeds and definitely will have to retune the servo, all in order to fix something that isn't broken...
 
The machines came with a hydraulic counterbalance until they didn't (2 years earlier?). Mine allegedly still has all the flanges and even the tapped holes for mounting everything.

50% load is 15 amps. At 320V that's 4800 watts (edit: something is wrong with this number but, whatever it is, it's not good) . It's not doing work. It's just heat, being burned up in the amplifier and the motor windings. I'd rather not have a stationary motor trying to dump 4800 watts of energy whenever I'm screwing around with parts or setup or whatever. It ate the first Z axis amplifier with maybe 100 cutting hours on the machine.

I can replace the 30A with the 45A it was supposed to come with or I can fix the root cause and return to the more expensive and maintenance hungry counterbalance.
 
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Have you amp clamped 15 amps? Because that sounds more like the power consumption of the full machine in a cut. Haas has tiny cute little servos and itty bitty little drives. 15 amps 3 phase sounds like a lot to me.

I'd bet more like 3 amps to hold Z, not 15.

Retrofitting a counterbalance system on a 20+ year old VF2 seems like a strange allocation of resources.

Unless I found someone nearby scrapping out the same machine I can't fathom bothering. Even then I probably wouldn't do it.
 
19 year old VF-2 with 195 in-cut hours on it. Personal machine. Basically new. Yes, the parts are available on eBay and other sources. One source is local and says he has everything.

Everything: pressure bottle, a sheetmetal holder for the side of the column to hold the bottle, a hose and the cylinder. Not much to it. There's a bracket that attaches the cylinder rod to the column behind the Z-axis way covers. You fill the system until it holds the head up (750 PSI).

Admittedly, no I have not amp-clamped it. I'm going by the load meter on the control and the rating of the amplifier for the math. That's why I said the numbers don't make sense. Even 3 amps at 320V is a thousand watts of heat to dissipate. Can't be good for the motors or the amp.

Again: discovered it was supposed to have a 45A amplifier from the factory which it does not. It already blew one very early in life. It's close to a grand to buy the 45A amplifier to give the electronics the headroom they should have had. Or I can mechanically balance things. Mechanical seems like a bit of an upgrade where the 45A amplifier seems like a bigger bandage to hide the bleeding.
 








 
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