The state of haas support these days (pitiful)
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  1. #1
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    Default The state of haas support these days (pitiful)

    Called yesterday morning (5/27) on a coolant pump for a 2007 VF2ss. Parts girl @ Ellison Tempe jibbered something about "system down, can't see ???, not familiar with, let me ask service writer and get right back to you". She rattled off my phone number and email, so I know she knew exactly who I was.
    Service writer (Allen) knows his shit, he knows exactly what pump I need!
    Here it is after hours the next day (5/28). You think I heard anything yet? NOPE!
    On a god-damn coolant pump for a 2007 VF2ss. Probably one of the most popular haas machine ever! And, I can't even have price/availability in 24 hours?
    3 years ago had that pump failed I would have been back up and running in 3 hours for $600.
    Now, I cant even get price/availability in 24 hours, and I already know, thanks to haasparts, that: that pump is now $1400 fucking dollars

    It is painfully obvious why people are jumping ship haas. You are slowly bleeding out.

    So, I guess I am just supposed to do this myself on haasparts huh?
    Add it to my cart, select the shipping, pay for the whole fucking thing + shipping?! Which is going to be over $3k
    $1400 pump with a $1400 core + at least $200 shipping + ship the core back?! Fuck off haas!
    3 years ago I could assume Ellison had probably at least three of these on the shelf. And, just head that way, and call on my way.
    Like I said, up and running in three hours for $600. Take the core with me, and leave it when I pick the new pump up.

    This new business model may work for Okuma, or Kitamura, maybe even Doosan. It will not fly on a piece of shit haas.

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    Isn't the Haas pump a version of what Graymills offers?

    Machine Tool Coolant Pumps - Industrial Coolant Pumps | Graymills

    I know they won't supply a direct replacement, but surely if you say you've got a pump of such voltage, such flow etc. they can match it up.

    May already be a reference replacement number out there, but I didn't search that hard...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Isn't the Haas pump a version of what Graymills offers?

    Machine Tool Coolant Pumps - Industrial Coolant Pumps | Graymills

    I know they won't supply a direct replacement, but surely if you say you've got a pump of such voltage, such flow etc. they can match it up.

    May already be a reference replacement number out there, but I didn't search that hard...
    Time is money. I don't have the time to figure it out.
    I already have some Grundfos pumps that operate on the correct voltage laying around I could adapt if that were the case.
    I just wanted to go for an hour drive to get out of the damn shop, and bolt a new pump in with no fussing around, for $600 like I did last time one shit the bed.

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    there is some new ones on ebay for like $600 , I was looking at getting one for a washdown pump and then I would have a spare if I needed a coolant pump in a hurry

    I think selway in Washington state is still working from home and there not back in the office yet. it might be the same in AZ ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    there is some new ones on ebay for like $600 , I was looking at getting one for a washdown pump and then I would have a spare if I needed a coolant pump in a hurry
    Those are 3ph and the wrong style for me.
    I need this one: PUMP, COOLANT 3/4 HP 1-PH, TWIST LOCK CONNECTOR | Pump | Standard Coolant | Coolant Systems | Find Replacement Parts | Haas Parts | Genuine OEM Haas Automation(R) Parts Factory-Direct

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    I had single phase pumps on my fadals and they burned out a LOT ,, I wired in a pull in contactor and changed to 3 phase pumps and got away from all of the starter BS that the single phase pumps had and it was just a simple rewire …

    Fadal used 110V pumps so just a simple 3 phase contactor with a 110V pull in from McMaster carr did it.

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    If I have to invest any more effort than driving to Ellison and picking it up?
    I will be adapting one of the Grundfos pumps I already have to the sump.

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    Wheelie

    This is kinda interesting that you and I managed to post a coolant pump related thread independently, all within one minute from each other. -> "Lazy" coolant

    Nonetheless, do you know the GPM rating on that pump?
    That is almost exactly what I have on my older machines, but fuck-me if I'm willing to pay anything like $2700 for two, let alone for one.

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    I am not going to sit here and defend Haas by any means but Ellison is the true culprit here. Bunch of real assholes in that company. My guess is you probably didn't speak with anybody local. If you can get the service manager's direct line or even email is the best route IMO with Ellison.

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    I waited 5 months to get a tech scheduled to come out to look at our machine from Ellison, they never gave me a date. Then I called them, and called them out, they acted like he was scheduled to come that day. BS, he was rerouted because they knew how long I had been waiting.

    Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjon61 View Post
    I am not going to sit here and defend Haas by any means but Ellison is the true culprit here. Bunch of real assholes in that company. My guess is you probably didn't speak with anybody local. If you can get the service manager's direct line or even email is the best route IMO with Ellison.
    I disagree. Do you think it was Ellison's decision for HFO's to quit stocking parts? I would bet NO
    This was haas's way to get shipping costs off their back, and pass them on to the customer. On top of ludicrous parts price mark-ups.
    I can't even fathom the profit margin increase at haas over the last couple years on parts! How do you think they keep machine prices down?

    I mean, for fuck's sake: PCB, DUAL BATTERY REPLACEMENT KIT (BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED) | Batteries | Electrical Cabinet | Find Replacement Parts | Haas Parts | Genuine OEM Haas Automation(R) Parts Factory-Direct
    They would be making money on that at $20. The BOM on that is probably under three bucks! $75 is just plain ignorant.

    Just like you not defending haas, I'm not defending Ellison. They are guilty as well. Service is all on them. And, it is terrible!
    Around here they are putting guys in vans that are years away from working alone.
    I have a good one: about 6 years ago, had a MOCON board fail in a VF2. Ellison sent a tech to diagnose. It was obvious to me in the first 5 minutes this kid had no clue what he was doing. He spent about 4 hours on the phone (on and off) with another tech walking him through the diagnosis procedure on the phone. Finally, I asked him "who are you talking to?" He asked "why?" I said "I know a lot of the techs, I'm just curious who is helping you figure it out." He told me. Well, I also happened to know that the tech he was talking to was at a buddy's shop working on his haas horizontal. I called my buddy and asked him if his horizontal was back up and running yet. he went off! "If this so&so would quit talking on the phone out in his damn van, he might get something done!" The kicker? You can bet your sweet ass my buddy was invoiced for all that time the tech at his shop spent helping the tech at my shop! And, I was invoiced for all the time the tech spent at my shop taking 5 times as long as it should have taken.

    It has been said hundreds of times on here in recent years, and it is true.
    The positive aspects of owning a haas were: the great control, parts price & availability, and service.
    Take all that away? And, why would anybody choose a haas? Especially a new one!
    I can kind of understand a used one simply because prices are in the shitter. But a new one? No effin way!

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    Wheelie, is it just bearings going out, or do you know? I just rebuilt (ie put new bearing in, cleaned up a bit LoL) for a few hours labor and about $10-$20 in bearings from McMaster. We sucked it up and bought a new one (and you are right total ripoff!) so I had time to fix the old one. Once I got the bearings in and put it back together it is running good as new. I switched it out for the new one so at least we have a backup now. Been about 6 months so we'll see how she holds up long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Wheelie, is it just bearings going out, or do you know? I just rebuilt (ie put new bearing in, cleaned up a bit LoL) for a few hours labor and about $10-$20 in bearings from McMaster. We sucked it up and bought a new one (and you are right total ripoff!) so I had time to fix the old one. Once I got the bearings in and put it back together it is running good as new. I switched it out for the new one so at least we have a backup now. Been about 6 months so we'll see how she holds up long term.
    I originally though bearings. Pulled to disassemble. And, once I got it out, found the bearings to be silky smooth.
    The noise it makes is strange. If you have ever heard a 3ph motor wired wrong to where if you try to run it it just sits there growling?
    That is very similar to the nose this pump is making. But, the motor starts right up, and it pumps fine. Just that crazy loud noise.
    I thought maybe the capacitor was going? I don't know a whole lot about this stuff. Didn't know if it was a "start" cap or a "run" cap, or both?
    So, I pirated a cap from one of the other pumps to test. The bad pump immediately vented that cap! LOL
    It was then I noticed that cap was rated 125v. The cap from the bad pump was rated 250v.
    I put the 250v cap on the good pump so that machine could run, and ordered a replacement (the 250v cap did not fit in the cover on that pump).

    I will probably end up sticking one of the Grunfos I have in there temporary, and take this bad pump to a motor shop for repair.
    I am having a real hard time with what haas thinks this $4-500 pump is worth. And, the fact that it would tie up over $3k until they give me my core refund.
    Not to mention the fact that I still have not heard back! I'm going to call her in a minute, with a total dick-head attitude (justifiably so).

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    Its my understanding that it is up to the HFO on what they carry on there trucks … the HFO up here in Washington state is Selway ,,,, The local Ellison dealer up here is a Doosan seller and they are the ones that could not even fix a simple coolant pump and had to pull both of the Doosans out of my shop 100% do to there bad service.

    Its my understanding that Ellison is down to "TWO" people in this seattle area and are already closing some of there other dealerships down ,,, Doosan was with a different local dealer tell they jerked there brand from them and went to Ellison right after Mori had had enough of Ellison,, I liked my Doosan machines but there dealer was crap and I hate to see Doosan go down do to Ellison ,,, but the upside is at some point Ellison well fold up and we can all benefit from a better dealer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjon61 View Post
    I am not going to sit here and defend Haas by any means but Ellison is the true culprit here. Bunch of real assholes in that company. My guess is you probably didn't speak with anybody local. If you can get the service manager's direct line or even email is the best route IMO with Ellison.
    +1 for that.

    Never heard one good word about Ellison.

    Oh, BTW the MI HFO (Gerotech) is a sight better than that with parts. Maybe it makes a difference that they sell 500+ machines/year in Michigan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I originally though bearings. Pulled to disassemble. And, once I got it out, found the bearings to be silky smooth.
    The noise it makes is strange. If you have ever heard a 3ph motor wired wrong to where if you try to run it it just sits there growling?
    That is very similar to the nose this pump is making. But, the motor starts right up, and it pumps fine. Just that crazy loud noise.
    I thought maybe the capacitor was going? I don't know a whole lot about this stuff. Didn't know if it was a "start" cap or a "run" cap, or both?
    So, I pirated a cap from one of the other pumps to test. The bad pump immediately vented that cap! LOL
    It was then I noticed that cap was rated 125v. The cap from the bad pump was rated 250v.
    I put the 250v cap on the good pump so that machine could run, and ordered a replacement (the 250v cap did not fit in the cover on that pump).

    I will probably end up sticking one of the Grunfos I have in there temporary, and take this bad pump to a motor shop for repair.
    I am having a real hard time with what haas thinks this $4-500 pump is worth. And, the fact that it would tie up over $3k until they give me my core refund.
    Not to mention the fact that I still have not heard back! I'm going to call her in a minute, with a total dick-head attitude (justifiably so).
    We bought a pump and kept our old one (that I replaced bearings on) so no core charge that I know of? I wonder if it varies by dealer? We use the Haas place out of Tampa, just a quick (HA!!) shot across the bridge into Tampa and pick up parts. Pretty sure we bought our tailstock that way too, ordered then picked up.

    I assume you checked the impeller too and made sure it wasn't rubbing? For the record, the pump was loud AF and grinding. Just bearings for us though.

    Edit: we tried to go around Haas and just buy a pump, but man their terminology was too much for me to decipher. We found a place in NY I think, but they just gave us the run-around on what models were compatible and stuff, so we *had* to go with Haas.
    Last edited by Mike1974; 05-28-2020 at 12:53 PM. Reason: more info

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    Having just got off the phone with DMG Mori in CA, service doesn't appear to be any better there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Having just got off the phone with DMG Mori in CA, service doesn't appear to be any better there.
    That's it - I'm giving up machining and becoming a service tech. That's for me! The glamorous life of being hip-deep in metal chips and old coolant while on the phone with my supervisor about how to make the toolchangerhickie move in towards the spindle-majig correctly.

    Seriously, there seems to be a critical shortage of good repairmen, is the pay too low? [I'm guessing "yes"]

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    When I was in California and I had a coolant pump die I took it to a motor repair shop. Had a place that had next day service for a reasonable price 10 miles away. Now in Virginia the last dead pump was replaced with a little adaptation of spare from a scrapped machine I had on the shelf.

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    you guys must mix your coolant awful thick or something. In 42 years I've never replaced a coolant pump. (Knock on wood)


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