UMC-500 flooding, not ready for production
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  1. #1
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    Default UMC-500 flooding, not ready for production

    So we've got new UMC-500 recently to use as a production machine. Machine itself is great, no problems holding tolerances, surfaces finishes are good.

    But, this is not production machine that you will be running one shift let alone 2 shifts. The problem is that tons of chips end up in chip tray and that causes the coolant to drain slowly which in turn makes it overflow and flood the shop.

    We have belt type chip conveyor and high pressure pump.

    I hear other people have problems with this and I do not see it being talked about.

    What do you guys recommend we do to address this, because as it is this machine is not usable? We can't have someone constantly clear up the chip tray.

    This is chip build-up in tray after a single part we ran. If you don't clear it immediately next part will flood the shop:

    chipbuildupsmall.jpg

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    Hey Denis, how's it going?

    Looks like you are making lots of chips with regular smooth-flute endmills. I have seen issues where a little foaming in the coolant can cause the feathery chips from such endmills to float up into a sort of spongy mass that takes up a lot of volume in the tray that leads to "boil-over."

    I know you had issues with chip tray screens clogging when using a corncob-style rougher, but they do make very compact swarf. Maybe give these another try, and make sure you have no foaming.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    I know you had issues with chip tray screens clogging when using a corncob-style rougher, but they do make very compact swarf. Maybe give these another try, and make sure you have no foaming.

    Regards.

    Mike
    Hey Mike, yeah we tried that with pretty much all major corn cob end mills. Makes no difference unfortunately.

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    This seems to be a common Haas problem. The chip screen trays are just too small and shallow.

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    We have 2 1000s ours does it too we don’t run conveyor continuously just when it needs it. We run conveyor while it is probing the next pallet then shut it off that makes it where it doesn’t fill the screen so bad. Ours was plugging up the conveyors we cut slots in the side of the bottom pan to let coolant out the side of the pan
    Don


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    Quote Originally Posted by D Nelson View Post
    We have 2 1000s ours does it too we don’t run conveyor continuously just when it needs it. We run conveyor while it is probing the next pallet then shut it off that makes it where it doesn’t fill the screen so bad. Ours was plugging up the conveyors we cut slots in the side of the bottom pan to let coolant out the side of the pan
    Hi Don, yeah, the installer immediately cut of slots into the bottom pan to let coolant out on the sides, he said that was plugging up all the time. We tried running conveyor only 10% of the time.

    What I am worried about not running it is that we hog out lot of material on big chunks so that will plug up the coolant drain and then machine will fill up and make even bigger mess.

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    It will hold a lot of chips inside without much problems. Running the conveyor constantly sucks. There is a guy that posted pics he moved the conveyor and filled the gap on the right side I will see if I can find the post
    Don


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    So I tried running with conveyor running at the start of each pallet for 1 minute. It looks like there are fewer chips in tray but still way too many. 3 pallets later it started leaking. My robot system is 30 pallets so if left running this would flood the shop.

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    Now recommendation from HFO is to update chip conveyor to a Henning conveyor for UMC-500 which is ~14k

    We already paid for an upgraded conveyor from Haas which was $8k and which they sell as "quick, high-volume chip removal for increased productivity". This is total nonsense.

    Why nobody can design coolant system that does not flood and removes chips effectively is puzzling. Coolant and chip management systems are an afterthought for majority of manufacturers.

    Why is nobody talking about these problems with UMC-500? I cannot believe nobody is doing production with this machine and if you are doing production you will have this problem.

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    I’m looking for that post it was a guy on Facebook machining page my son is searching for it. I will post it as soon as possible
    Don


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    Quote Originally Posted by D Nelson View Post
    I’m looking for that post it was a guy on Facebook machining page my son is searching for it. I will post it as soon as possible

    Hi Don, removing the conveyor is just not an option. This is production machine, heavy material removal with 30 pallet robot on it. We need it to be able to run 30 pallets without flooding the shop.

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    Have the robot clean out the chip pan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Have the robot clean out the chip pan
    That's first thing I thought, get second robot to scoop up the chips Oy!

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    Then call HAAS tell them to come fix it
    Don


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    So I called haas tech he said he took a 750 apart couple days ago. Took pan off of the conveyor 2 bolts it slides right out he said he slightly raise the Conveyor for support he said there is a gap where the conveyor starts to angle up on both side said it is 2 inches wide and about 6 inches long he thinks a guy can make a piece and screw it or rivet it in thereto fix the problem. I hope this helps you out I’m going to take both of ours apart next week and see if I can figure it out on this end if it is something I can fab up I will make a extra set for you
    Don


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    Em .. just fix it.

    Get one or two low and high pressure pumps meant for industrial use aka harsh service.
    Typically well pumps that can spit out gravel 1/2" in size.
    Screen their input a bit.

    The pumps cost less than 300$, and should run for years.
    You want a submersible pump that can accept gravel.

    They work pretty much like pressure washers, and you can regulate their work rate as you wish.
    Hook it into the control if you want - one of the extra gcodes or an mcode, or trigger it from the led light tower, or from the spindle motor via a shunt sensor, many options.
    Intelligent programmable relays or very basic plcs of 90$ or less can easily do timed on-off and triggered flush based on maybe mass or chip pile height.

    Or maybe just run them all the time after an M3 command via a macro.
    After all, lawn irrigation runs every day for years.

    I know it sounds ghetto, but in fact this type of stuff works very well.'

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    We took delivery of two UMC500s and two ST20Ys not long ago.

    I've barely had a chance to play with the UMCs, but the ST20Ys are both running production. They have nearly identical conveyors to the UMCs. No floods yet, but the machine running aluminum does fill up the fines tray after running overnight.

    Our DMG Mori NLX2500SY (bought new in 2014) has a similar hinge belt conveyor from LNS. It doesn't have a filter screen - it just dumps the fines right into the coolant tank. Ever month or two we use a kitty litter scoop and dig out 10 gallons of fines. It takes all of 10 minutes, so nothing really to complain about. This is our ONLY machine that has never flooded.

    So perhaps the solution is to ditch the fines tray and just let the chips fall right into the tank. Not an ideal solution, but it beats flooding. The caveat is that the Haas tanks don't have filter screens to separate the main compartment from the pumps. You may have fabricate your own screens around the pumps.

    I'll follow up after I've had some time on the UMCs, but if I start running into overflow issues, the first thing I'm going to do is probably ditch the tray.

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    That's actually not a half bad idea.

    I had similar issue on my EC400. Running aluminum, it does fill up quite quickly. I use the wire tray, some fine filter paper, and the haas hairnet over it.

    Haven't run aluminum for a while, all stainless lately. It takes longer to fill up, but the tray will be quite full after 1-2 days.

    I think I might try removing the whole thing. Wire basket, and the tray under it. Might have to fabricate a larger wire basket that can drop right in the tank there. Something like 8" tall? Or whatever it measures.

    That would provide a lot more volume to collect fines, but also be easier to clean. Smaller space to clean with the pooper scooper, or can just remove the whole thing. Maybe add some handles... Hmmm..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Vise View Post
    I'll follow up after I've had some time on the UMCs, but if I start running into overflow issues, the first thing I'm going to do is probably ditch the tray.
    I don't recommend doing that unless you have filters on coolant lines. You'll clog the nozzles around spindle in no time and cleaning that up will be a pain. Been there...

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    Might not be relevant with a conveyor system but we use a plastic tray on top of the screen filter on top of the coolant tank. 4x9x15" approximately, we cut holes toward the top edge on one side. That side faces outward. The tray sits under the coolant outlet and fills up and overflows into the tank thru the holes. This catches most of the fines in the bottom of the tray before they get to the screen. Probably only have to do a cleanout every week, week & 1/2., but that is just one shift, no lights out here.

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