Upgrade Haas Control to use Sigma V motors

Anyone upgraded a mill with version 17 (or earlier) software to version 18? I’ve never gotten a straight answer from my HFO about what this would cost and never really pushed because when I added the rotary a few years back it was built with the lower count encoders. In a week or so I will have a need for working with the higher count encoders and it would be nice to hear from someone who has gone down this path.

Mill Configuration - VER M17.05A p Oct 19 2010 17:45:28

Thanks,
David

It’s never a good sign when after 2 days there aren’t any replies with as many Haas users as there are on here. Sigh. So after speaking with the HFO and then Haas directly it seems this is not possible. I do remember reading a thread or two about someone doing this in the past either here or a site starting with CNC and ending in Zone. Unfortunately I can’t find the thread to reference.

My options, according to Haas, are to either upgrade mills or send in the trunnion table and have the motors replaced. Upgrading will eventually happen, but not at this moment in time. Therefore sending in the trunnion table to revert to lesser count encoders is about asinine if you’re going to upgrade in the future.

My options, according to me, are to either (a) build a divide-by-n counter circuit and interface what appears to be a RS-422 quadrature endoder or (b) find a local tech (or not so local to me - haastec I’m looking at you) willing to work with me to get a main processor with v18 working outside the HFO. Option A is probably the easiest and most direct route, but option B is the one that I really want to tackle. Unfortunately I’m 200% sold thru March 2016 and don’t have time for additional personal projects. I still need to finish this thread (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/shop-made-drawbar-dynamometer-309706/).

What really gets to me is this machine was built many months (6+) after they introduced v18, but my worthless salesman didn’t mention this to me when placing the order. Had I known at the time about this change I would have made sure the machine was built with the latest controller even if it cost a few dollars more.

Hopefully this follow-up post kicks the can a little further down the road and I’ll get additional feedback about what are the real differences between main processor boards, servo amplifiers, i/o boards and software versions 17 & 18.

I guess this thread will now serve to document the process to use a Sigma V servo rotary table with an older generation Haas controller. Option A will require a little bit of work, but is doable. Assuming I can find enough *free* time between now and the end of the year I am hopeful to have this working soon.

maximum frequency calculation (A & B phases) :

pulses/turn = 1,048,576
ratio = 80:1
pulses/360* = 83,886,080

maximum speed = 300*/SEC = 50 RPM

pulses/sec = 83,886,080 x 300* / 360* = 69,905,066.67 Hz ~ 70 MHz

need at least 4x overhead = 70 MHz * 4 = 280 MHz ==> 500 MHz

We will use a 500 MHz FPGA to divide the 1,048,576 pulses/turn down to 65,536 pulses/turn @ 300*/SEC without loss of pulse count when changing directions.

As a first approximation I may use a 200 MHz PIC since I don’t require 50 RPM indexing speed. At 15 RPM this requires ~ 21 MHz speed which should be enough for my immediate needs. The PIC will have significantly more overhead than the FPGA so I will shoot for a 10:1 ratio.

An alternate first approximation would be to use multiple shift registers running at 100 MHz along with several flip flops to determine direction and change in direction to keep the counts correct.

I am aware of existing products from Motrona and others but these have very limited input capabilities (~ 1 MHz).

I have little to add other then it was always my understanding Haas 4th axis units where Plug and Play...
Upgrades always backward compliant...maybe just salesman talk.

That was till I bought my 5C Indexer and when I went to hookup--- it was a bit different...had to buy a conversion cable and rewire...then of course if I wanted to use the older Brush unit it was remove conversion cables and revert wiring. Not what you want to hear when your trying to push out a job...

This was my understanding as well. I was aware any older brush type rotary would need a conversion box, but the 4th axis I added a couple years back was brushless and built with Sigma I motors so it was plug-n-play. The trunnion table I picked up I knew would not work with the software version on my machine but *assumed* it would be either a software only update or a new main processor board + software update. The table was too good of a deal to pass up (~60% off list) for what appears to be in like new condition.

I spoke with Haas corporate and the information I was given seemed like a lot of BS. Interlock changes and other big words they hoped would make me fear for my safety was really all I got. Basically there is no path forward to version 18 without purchasing a new machine. What I really think is going on is Haas wants shops with older and newer machines to have to upgrade the older machines if the shop wants new higher count 4th / 5th axis tables to be swappable between machines. Otherwise, from reading recent threads, there really isn’t a strong incentive to upgrade older machines if they make good parts. I think this holds even more weight when the machine is paid for and making good parts.

As previously stated in this thread, I have a path forward which will allow me to use newer style encoders on older software versions. I would imagine any shop with older machines with newer rotaries will be interested in the outcome of this project.

Just for the record I’m not a machinist or operate a machine shop. I do, however, enjoy building things (tinkering) with the assortment stuff I’ve acquired. It’s mainly a way to take my mind off my day job when I’m stuck on a problem. Like many here, I learn far more from this site than I can (or have time to) contribute so maybe this will help a shop out somewhere down the road.

Did you ever finish this project? Was it successful? Any help on this would be great. I have a 2011 haas with sigma 1 4th control but would like to use a newer sigma 5 rotary.

Thanks

FoxPerformance said:

Did you ever finish this project? Was it successful? Any help on this would be great. I have a 2011 haas with sigma 1 4th control but would like to use a newer sigma 5 rotary.

Thanks

Click to expand...

It became easier to replace the encoders than to deal with trying to understand how to communicate the Sigma V encoders. From the little bit of research I did initially these appear to be accessed through a serial communication. Instead of the controller looking at the pulses it reads the position from the encoder. It's been almost 2 years ago, but that's what I remember...