vector drive compatability question

trying to troubleshoot an assumed vector drive issue ith my vf2.


for testing porposes, what drives can i toss into a 2009 vf2 to simply turn it on and see if the error flags (993 AMPLIFIER SHORT CIRCUIT, 123 spindle drive fault) it has a 20 hp drive, but i may be able to borrow a drive from some friendly local shops, an older 15hp vector drive, more current 30hp, or even a vector drive from a TM series. borrowing the tm drive is most likely but the oddest one t try

i can limp the machine when needed so im not totally stuck. if i warm the drive with a space heater it works.... but its getting to the point i need to correct it. im pretty sure its the drive as i have checked everything else.. (motor, leads, contactors), BUT a service call means paying 1000km travel and a overnight stay, add in a vector drive and the posibility there is still a ghost in the machine somply frightens my light pocketbook, hence the horsing around trying to resolve before spending.
have sent the drive to a shop to be repaired, but h was a 1 man band with minimul resources, was not able to test installed in a system to verify everything. found this out after, but he refunded me when it did not work, so all is good.


so?

open to any ideas
the reason i point at the drive is if i apply heat directly locally to it with a tiny space heater it works after its 60-70deg.

Hi Stirling, how's things? I'll trade ya my ball-screw and nut problem (post below ) for yours. haha. Got a picture of what the 2009 looks like?

You seen this on the short circuit test?
Servo Amplifier - Troubleshooting Guide - CHC

Take a look at this one also: Redirecting to https://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas-mills/307740-posts.html

If you simply hook up the regen resistor wires and the 3 phase AC input, and measure the voltage, do you get the 330VDC output?
Have you possibly unwired an axis drive one at at time (Motor and DC hookups) to see if one of those is causing it?

Stirling said:

trying to troubleshoot an assumed vector drive issue ith my vf2.

for testing porposes, what drives can i toss into a 2009 vf2 to simply turn it on and see if the error flags (993 AMPLIFIER SHORT CIRCUIT, 123 spindle drive fault) it has a 20 hp drive, but i may be able to borrow a drive from some friendly local shops, an older 15hp vector drive, more current 30hp, or even a vector drive from a TM series. borrowing the tm drive is most likely but the oddest one t try

i can limp the machine when needed so im not totally stuck. if i warm the drive with a space heater it works.... but its getting to the point i need to correct it. im pretty sure its the drive as i have checked everything else.. (motor, leads, contactors), BUT a service call means paying 1000km travel and a overnight stay, add in a vector drive and the posibility there is still a ghost in the machine somply frightens my light pocketbook, hence the horsing around trying to resolve before spending.
have sent the drive to a shop to be repaired, but h was a 1 man band with minimul resources, was not able to test installed in a system to verify everything. found this out after, but he refunded me when it did not work, so all is good.


so?

open to any ideas
the reason i point at the drive is if i apply heat directly locally to it with a tiny space heater it works after its 60-70deg.

Click to expand...

Hey Country guy!

here is my best update on it,
I opened drvie up while still attahed to machine. powered up and used a blow dryer to localize the heat input with a blow dryer, then cut some cardboard out to help localize the heat input. narrowed it down to a sq inch on the drive control board. (small board)

here are the photos. in yellow is where i carted the cardboard to localize the heat (high heat, low fan speed settings on hair dryer. pretty darn hot. from cold (used airgun to cool between cycls) it would take approx 10 seconds to clear the error with a buddy pressing reset at the controller.
i tryed localizing heat this way on near by components as well to determin if heat soak to nearby areas was effeting results.
the marked yellow components where (imo) clearly the components where heat made them work.)

so i guess ill ave to find some chips and try them out. got a buddy that is better than me at this so im gonna get his help

whats your thoughts? im not super litterate on this, but learning

you did a great job isolating. On my bench from day's of old- a heat gun and freeze spray were best friends.
It could be other things in that area. you may need to pull the board off and inspect the back on that same spot in reverse. I use a Magnafying glass and bright light. They have cool USB microscopes now as well that really work well for 12-15 bucks on Amazon. I use this now.
You are looking for cold/poor solder connections on any of the parts in that area. use a small solder pencil with super fine tip and 30 gauge solder. Actually an old fix would be to re-solder the pins and thru-traces (dots) all around that area. fixed many a board this way.
You can use a ohmmeter on the resistors and some different connections and read in OHMS while you heat and freeze. poke around on different legs of the IC to ground, and maybe between some different points.
You can ohm check a lot of componants. Just look them up by the numbers, google how to test a diode with a voltmeter (diode tester) and a OHM meters (both ways) and hit w/ freeze and some heat. (NO POWER... on a bench).

Also, I could not get the numbers off the chip... Could you try a better Pic or just jot them down. also there is a Mfr. Logo/brand as well... I could not see. What's it look like? It's probably some specialized IC. Now, around that I see several Rxxx (resistors) CRxxx diode VR variable resistor,

My first whack at it would be to resolder the area... for what it's worth but I have hundreds and hundreds of hours soldering. Tear something apart and learn on something. See my post here on the T-100 soldering Iron. do a search on my ID and T100 or just solder iron. It's not that expensive and I list the tools of the trade I used.

Keep us posted.
GC

As best i can see the black chip is:

ict
1bccv8zj
f86ma
7??km??? (there is 2 differnent ngravings in this location making hard to read. the first few are brown ish surface lettering)

other engraving under the first one: (deep engraved/or pressed in)
80-13244 (maybe the 8 is a B?

the rest look pretty basic, ill get the numbers under the scope

Me and a buddy will be looking under the microscope tomorrow morning to see what we can, hes really into this kinda stuff.
has a bunch of gear to play in this realm.

as for irons i got what i would assume is a big brother to yout t-100, bought a hakko fx-951 to replace my el cheapo for a job i was making a batch of. man what a difference!

a bas solder joint would be great to find, hate this on and off again stuff.

i was just cooking it every time i needed it but it was getting worse. so i sent it to a guy to fix, only later to find out he could not test, just relaced common failgure parts, he was cool tho, did not bill me when it did not work.
"problem is" is that the sensor that detects overheating now actully works, so i cannot get it hot enough to run without tripping overhear (i know i know, bad me) i buess worst case now i can locallly heat the spot needed to get some work done vs broadly heating all of it. but sure would be nice to fix, wish new drived where cheaper, but even new from haas is just refurbished as per their part # and website...

see my post on the CHIP thread about a few options and thoughts..
Good luck!!! if you do get the program copied... pm it to me as a bin file (binary). :-)
Later , CG

Looks like I’m having the same problem on my 2008 SL10. Have to put direct heat on the vector drive in order to get it to work. Could you post your findings once you successfully diagnosed? Great work by the way!

Highdesert1 said:

Looks like I’m having the same problem on my 2008 SL10. Have to put direct heat on the vector drive in order to get it to work. Could you post your findings once you successfully diagnosed? Great work by the way!

Click to expand...

***warning, not professional advice. Use at you own risk, high voltage will kill you!***

Try opening up the backside of the drive while the leads are still connected to the machine.
This will expose the control board of the drive.
Make damn sure it’s stable and you do not touch it!!!!!!!
Fire up the machine and steal you wife’s blow dryer.. I used cardboard (Cheerios to be specific) to localize sections-of the board and heat. Have someone continuing to hit reset while you do this. When the error clears cool it back down and localize a smaller area, repeat until you have found the small area that’s the issue. Repair as needed.
Mine ended up being the chip photoed above which had programming on it. Not having a source for the programming I opted to purchase a used(refurb) board online.

It may be as simply as swapping a $1 chip. Or get a new board.
The company I bough from was around $1000usd for a control board with core. I think $3000??? For a full drive with core

Here is a link to their eBay account. Board works good. Looks like ok refurb, one dark cap.on it that should have been replaced IMO.
But got here FAST and I was up and running.
Texas to northern Alberta in 2 days!!!!!

https://m.ebay.ca/seller?sid=cnctoo...7c5b8f217d0ac6e0f0400bdfff6b936&ul_noapp=true

Highdesert1 said:

Looks like I’m having the same problem on my 2008 SL10. Have to put direct heat on the vector drive in order to get it to work. Could you post your findings once you successfully diagnosed? Great work by the way!

Click to expand...

Is the error the same? What your's alarming with.

The goal is to not fry the part area but gently soak an area. Once you find the area, post a pic if you want. Still trying to keep learning on these beasty's. but you then need to diagnose it which can be difficult, or you just replace a few parts in that area over a few iterations. (shotgun it).

Here is a post from the past. Cover's mostly a power-semi rebuild on the 3 phase AC rectifer, the IGBT's and regen IGBT. the 340 DC caps, etc.
Old VF Vector/Spindle Drive to Motor drive ohm checks. (follow up thread)

Youtube has lots of videos on how to use a common meter to check various componants.

On the PCB, There are some notes in various forums about certain high failure rate components. Not sure which Vector you have but it can be done or just swap it out.

Amplifier short circuit and Spindle Drive Fault are the errors I get before taking some heat to it. The garage was about 35-40 degrees F.

I have not removed the drive yet and was waiting for some down time to do so. I’ll check out the control board on their eBay account.

Thank you!

Highdesert1 said:

Amplifier short circuit and Spindle Drive Fault are the errors I get before taking some heat to it. The garage was about 35-40 degrees F.

I have not removed the drive yet and was waiting for some down time to do so. I’ll check out the control board on their eBay account.

Thank you!

Click to expand...

That’s the same errors I fought with.

What was your resolution? New board?

My vote would be the cr21 and cr22. Diodes types almost always have some temperature curve somehow. Of course you'll have to find that 15hp schematic floating around on the c n c z o n e forums