Why Does HAAS Have a Bad Rep? (To some people) - Page 7
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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_b View Post
    I learned on a Haas at trade school, worked in a shop for almost 6 years on a '96 vf0, 05 vf3 and an '02 sl20. I never had any issues.
    At my current job I was hired to get them started on manufacturing their own parts. I picked a vf4. The machine does 90% 1018 and a little it if aluminum. I don't have any complaints about the machine.
    The new controller is SLOW to power up. I had an issues with the video cable to the monitor (I guess it was a known issue, I called my HFO told them what it was doing and had a guy out to fix it in a day). I like the layout of the new control, but there are a few bugs that I have called about and they didn't have a solution.
    The most annoying issue/bug is I can be running parts and every so often I will hit cycle start and the program will go to the M30, I either have to cycle start twice or reset then cycle start to make another part.
    The other issue is occasionally in MDI I will call Txx and hit next tool, and it will just say running but won't do anything. I will have to call a different tool before I can call the one I want.

    I have a ST30 that should be ready to ship this week. I am not sure if it has the new controller or not.

    I've only ran Haas machines and have been very happy for my applications.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The MDI, Txx, ATC FWD/REV bug is also in my late year (2015) pre-NGC controller but it may have been resolved with the latest software update we just had installed. I have heard another user report this problem in the NGC as well.

    I also just remembered that the last 2 Fadals we bought had the expanded memory (8MB, lol) and were so unresponsive to button presses that one of them had to have the processor upgraded just to be operable. The bootup time was nearly 4 minutes or something like that, it was ridiculous. Before the processor upgrade was installed the tech reduced the memory size to 4MB and the control became tolerable. I did the same thing to the other machine that wasn't a problem and it got snappier as well. It has the shortest bootup time of the Fadals.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Fuckin' A Bubba!

    I'm all in with what you've said ^^^ up there ^^^ youngster, except for the super slick control part.
    that was somewhat sarcasm there....i'm a g&m code guy so the haas controller is my cup of tea. gotta be different out there to get a market of your own which hurco has done. different stroke for different folks....

  3. #123
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    I think the biggest thing I have noticed is the durability. I actually love Haas mills and think they are one of the best teaching mills around. They are just not as durable as Mazak's and DMG's normally.

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  5. #124
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    At my shop we have 3 Haas machines a vf 7, 3 and an ec1600. The vf 7 and 3 are under 4 years old. The 1600 is 6 or 7 years old. All of them have given us problems causing expensive repairs.
    The vf 7 spindle blew up at less then 2 years old. We've had constant coolant and chip evacuation issues. Auger is useless, TSC does not work properly, pisses coolant out of all 4 corners. We've also had electrical problems with circuit boards, problems with ways and bearings and over cutting issues.
    The vf 3 had its tool changer completely replaced after 2 years. It wrecked an entire set of way covers inexplicably, coolant pump failed and the machine will randomly piss coolant out the back.
    The 1600 has been the worst of all. All circuit boards needed to be replaced. Constant tool changer, coolant and auger issues. Pendant alarms out machine and randomly moves table on its own. Spindle pull stud mechanism needed to be replaced. Over cutting issues. TSC pump replaced.
    Haas has not been timely with repairs, often making us wait days for them to even show up and multiple trips to fix the job right.

    We now buy Mazaks. For the money you save with Haas upfront in the long term they collect more than what you would pay for a good machine.

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  7. #125
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    Could you please qualify your statement with the hours of service?
    Are these 40hr/week machines, or 120+


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  8. #126
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    And are they milling Delrin in a climate controlled shop, or Inconel under a tarp?

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    120+ hours per week. We cut mold steel, like the salesman said it could cut accurately no problem.

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    everything you've said is meaningless.
    My first Mazak had the spindle motor replaced on day 2. The spindle cartridge crapped out in 2 months. The X axis slide ways started spitting balls out onto the floor at 6 mo.

    My second Mazak had to have the entire control replaced after the 1st week.

    On the other hand, I have 3 Haas's, and I have never called service once.

    Luck of the draw?

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  12. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    everything you've said is meaningless.
    My first Mazak had the spindle motor replaced on day 2. The spindle cartridge crapped out in 2 months. The X axis slide ways started spitting balls out onto the floor at 6 mo.

    My second Mazak had to have the entire control replaced after the 1st week.

    On the other hand, I have 3 Haas's, and I have never called service once.

    Luck of the draw?
    Larry, you should know first hand the huge difference between Haas and Mazak when it comes to quality and durability. We've had 2 mazaks for a couple years now with no problems and with a better finish cut.

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    So I take it you signed up here to cry about your Haas mills?

    Way cover problems? lol. Alright...

    If your way covers are trashed, are you sure your operators aren't just beating the shit out of the machines (in every aspect you complained about)

    How do you trash the way covers, without letting tools, or big chunks of materials fall on them, get stuck in them, etc??

    A set of way covers don't just go out and get "wrecked inexplicably".

    Treat the machine like a beater, guess what? Shit will break. Just wait until you gotta fix those expensive mazaks.

    So you'll be back here posting in the Mazak section in a couple years?


    When I read your post I just picture one of our vendor's machines. He has a VF3, only 2 years old, but inside the machine looks like a fuckin 20 year old beater. Way covers dented, paint missing everywhere, spindle is all rusted. LOL

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    We now have a "high gear" fault on our VF7, spindle stuck in low gear and cannot run. Another $1000 just to have Haas come look at it in 2 days. Our VF3 is alarming out a few times a day because of a "ground line fault". These machines were purchased brand new and are less then 5 years old. We are looking at 1 week of downtime on the VF7. We are a small busy mold shop and over the next year or 2 we are phasing out these low quality and unreliable haas machines. We have a 7 axis gundrill currently being built to replace the 1600 which has been the worst of all.

  16. #132
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    Your topic title is a "Why do you beat your wife ?" or "Why do you hate the USA ?" sort of misleading BS topic title

  17. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by interforever View Post
    We now have a "high gear" fault on our VF7, spindle stuck in low gear and cannot run. Another $1000 just to have Haas come look at it in 2 days. Our VF3 is alarming out a few times a day because of a "ground line fault". These machines were purchased brand new and are less then 5 years old. We are looking at 1 week of downtime on the VF7. We are a small busy mold shop and over the next year or 2 we are phasing out these low quality and unreliable haas machines. We have a 7 axis gundrill currently being built to replace the 1600 which has been the worst of all.


    Sometimes its buying the right tool for the right job.

    Listening to a sales rep can be likened to a used car dealer telling you the Hot Red Mustang GT Cobra with bald rear tires was bought new, right here by an sweet ol'Grandmother. She only took it to shop at the Pigly Wigly and go to church on Sundays.


    I'll say cutting Mold Steel 120+ hours a week may not be the best application for a Haas VF machine. However, if setup and run the way a Haas needs to be setup and run...they should hold up quite well. Can't speak to the EC 1600, not a Haas machine I would buy. If I needed t push out work I'd be buying something HD, not Haas.

    Way covers, yeah, mine gotten a hell of a ding too...You might be right about it being the machines fault. My guy said the same thing when he let the chunk fall off the back of the table and left it there so when machine homed the material jammed up into the way cover. At least I had mine a whole week before that happened. Freaking cheap machines...

    As to gear not shifting, most likely the orifice is clogged up. Dirty air will eventually do that. Usually can just be drilled out and good to go.

    A week of downtime sounds more like an HFO problem then a Haas problem. Yes, if HFO sucks, I'd never buy another Haas in that area. Same goes for Mazak, Emco Maier, Hardinge etc.

    Augers work great....for what they are and what you pay for'em.


    Leaking cabinets...on this one your dead on. Haas Sucks. They used to be bad, but now its sucks...silicone joints took the place of not great sheetmetal overlaps...Lots of chips, hot chips, wrong coolant and silicone breaks down or seal breaks and drip drip drip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    $73,500 each. The interesting thing is that they are $2500 LESS EACH than what we paid for the equivalent 2012 VF2s we have.
    yeah they sure are getting cheaper

    Quote Originally Posted by viper View Post
    I have a 1991 Mori Seiki that runs absolute position encoders and closed loop vector, constant HP spindle. NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE!!!!! One can get out of it's own way, one can't.

    I also experienced a machine finish issue with that Haas that turned out to be vibration in the heat causing it. Even though Haas said no, my owns eyes don't lie. Their engineering dept called me to ask about it and to see how I fixed it. I told them to go fuck themselves because they want me to spend my own money to have their techs in here to find the problems that would ultimately end up with them wanting to replace 10K in gear.
    agree with everything you said, but isn't the Mori double? Like $120K vs $60K?
    I miss the Japanese machines I ran back in industry, but they were $100K+ back in 1990's dollars

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    Quote Originally Posted by interforever View Post
    We now have a "high gear" fault on our VF7, spindle stuck in low gear and cannot run. Another $1000 just to have Haas come look at it in 2 days. Our VF3 is alarming out a few times a day because of a "ground line fault". These machines were purchased brand new and are less then 5 years old. We are looking at 1 week of downtime on the VF7. We are a small busy mold shop and over the next year or 2 we are phasing out these low quality and unreliable haas machines. We have a 7 axis gundrill currently being built to replace the 1600 which has been the worst of all.
    Shifting problems pretty much gone with good clean air. This is really important for the gearbox setup. Also keeping the oil topped up as needed.
    Again, as others have said, HFO support is crucial. The local tech guy has helped me many times over the phone.

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    After waiting 5 business days for Haas to show up they want to replace the gearbox for 20k cdn and fix the ways (bearings have started to fall out) for 16k.
    At this point we are getting the gearbox rebuilt and the ways repaired by someone else and then this pos is gone. 36k into a haas and that won't even fix all the problems with the machine.

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    Old machines require $ to keep running.

    Did you look for an organ doner?


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    The recent "upgrades" of the VF and ST series are mostly a gimmick, nothing really earth-shattering ?

    Citing your comment, can you please elaborate the term "gimmick" for VF series to be more specific?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Harter.


    I don't know how it is in Sweden, but I do know this. Here in the US the HFO does have the power and clout to pull such machines off your floor and offer a brand new replacement OR refund your total cost.
    I have seen it twice in my area and it was also offered to me when I had a little beef with one of my new machines.

    Don't get me wrong, I am a very happy Haas user but that does not stop me from trying to point out the shortcomings of their machines or in some cases the sheer stupidity behind those shortcomings.

    Viper

    I agree with some of what you are saying, but strongly disagree that the Haas isn't meant to cut steel all day long. Even my Minimill spends less than 30% of it's life with AL, but the VF4 with gearbox cuts 90%+ stainless, inco, TI and a small amount of plain steel jobs.
    My parts are not large enough to be needing any insert cutters ( other than facing ), but up-to 3/4" endmills the Haas cuts just about as fast and good as most other brands.
    I do wish they'd read and do something about this statement of yours:



    because that is the heart of the problem they're going to be facing in the not so distant future when other brands start lowering their costs for much better machines.
    To some degree it is already here, in my opinion a Mori Duraturn is 2x the machine of an SL20 ( or SL30 ), yet carries only a $20 - 25K premium.
    The recent "upgrades" of the VF and ST series are mostly a gimmick, nothing really earth shattering, in one instance I know of some of it is even downright retarded ( ST20 ).

    Nonetheless, they are reasonable machines and are good value for the money.
    And just as you've stated, I too wish they do build a couple of models that are to be in direct competition with the better built Japanese ones.
    I believe they are big enough now to financially afford a few models where they simply break-even with costs vs. qty of machines built.

    Can you please elaborate the term "gimmick" with respect to the term "upgrades" ?
    A humble request.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KARAN DAVE View Post
    The recent "upgrades" of the VF and ST series are mostly a gimmick, nothing really earth-shattering ?

    Citing your comment, can you please elaborate the term "gimmick" for VF series to be more specific?
    -You do realize that comment was made some eight years ago, right? The "recent" upgrades spoken of at the time are now two or three generations old.

    Doc.


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