Why Does HAAS Have a Bad Rep? (To some people) - Page 9
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    Apples to apples a vf3 ss with tscc, chip conveyor, hsm machining, probing vs dnm 5700 the list price of the Doosan was 9 percent higher but they cut that down further and it's couple thousand more but if you add a 2 year warranty with the haas which is standard for Doosan the Doosan was a better deal. Not to mention a spindle chiller and 45mm roller guides on yz and all their specs and details of the machine are transparent. Unless you get haas 10 percent off promo or cut down on the options and want a more basic machine the Doosan is clearly a better deal. They however released a new lighter duty machine series that are supposed to be cheaper but I'm not interested in. The big advantage with haas to me is if you have a specific product line that doesn't need certain options, the ROI could be much better especially if you just get basic non SS machine.

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    Interesting. Thanks

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    Default Why Does HAAS Have a Bad Rep? (To some people)

    One key thing to remember about the popular Haas “SS” machines is they get the fast rapids and feeds using high-pitch ball screws.

    High-pitch screws will not maintain accuracy as well over time as standard pitch screws do, you lose a lot of power in the linear axis motion, and they can’t be pre-loaded as tightly.

    Haas should do like other builders when they want super-fast rapids and feeds: use larger, standard pitch screws, larger servo motors, and larger servo drives to match.

    Typical Haas chintzy engineering...

    ToolCat

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  5. #164
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    I have a Feb 2020 VF2SSYT. So far I had to get the following replaced under warranty TSC union, Contactor on the breaker, ATC Arm adjusted (out of spec from the factory), Wipers were replaced under warranty (my hfo is great). Then the horrible galvanneal way covers that Haas switch to, the corrosion is just horrible.

    I love the control, love how easy it is to use, how much light there is. Overall I do love the machine but my friends early 2018 just feels better in the quality dept and corners not cut as sharp compared to mine.

    Next machine is a Doosan, Hyundai or bother.

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    Haas machines are:

    - Old design machines
    - Light and not rigid
    - Ball type guideways instead of roller type
    - Not pretensioned ballscrew
    - Underpowered spindle and axis motors

    Not enough?
    In my opinion they are good only if you machine aluminum and soft materials, if you work stainless steel, hard steel or exotic materials don't even try them!!!

    What i really can't understand is why they don't improve their machines with a more rigid frame, bigger motors and roller type guideways...

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
    Haas machines are:

    - Old design machines
    - Light and not rigid
    - Ball type guideways instead of roller type
    - Not pretensioned ballscrew
    - Underpowered spindle and axis motors

    Not enough?
    In my opinion they are good only if you machine aluminum and soft materials, if you work stainless steel, hard steel or exotic materials don't even try them!!!

    What i really can't understand is why they don't improve their machines with a more rigid frame, bigger motors and roller type guideways...
    You obviously don't have much experience with haas machines and hard materials

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  10. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
    Haas machines are:

    - Old design machines
    - Light and not rigid
    - Ball type guideways instead of roller type
    - Not pretensioned ballscrew
    - Underpowered spindle and axis motors

    Not enough?
    In my opinion they are good only if you machine aluminum and soft materials, if you work stainless steel, hard steel or exotic materials don't even try them!!!

    What i really can't understand is why they don't improve their machines with a more rigid frame, bigger motors and roller type guideways...
    I ran a VF-3SS for six years, doing 3+2 machining of mostly Ti6Al4V-ELI and 17-4 H900. The machine ran Helical 1/2" endmills at Helical's cutting parameters with five hours of cutter life. Mostly prototype and short run, except for a 3 month long 24/7 lights-out production push. Machine did everything I asked of it, including hours on end at max (15K) spindle speed.

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  12. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    I ran a VF-3SS for six years, doing 3+2 machining of mostly Ti6Al4V-ELI and 17-4 H900. The machine ran Helical 1/2" endmills at Helical's cutting parameters with five hours of cutter life. Mostly prototype and short run, except for a 3 month long 24/7 lights-out production push. Machine did everything I asked of it, including hours on end at max (15K) spindle speed.
    I often wonder how many of the haas haters have actually run a haas vs making some shit up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I often wonder how many of the haas haters have actually run a haas vs making some shit up.
    Or they've based their opinion on old machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Or they've based their opinion on old machines.
    Or new machines.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Or new machines.....
    If you mean "beta program" machines like the UMC line, I'll give you that. The first few years of those had major problems.

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    I'm not a Haas hater, but what i said Is the objective truth.
    Haas frames are usually lighter than competitors, motors are smaller, no rollers guideways and so on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
    I'm not a Haas hater, but what i said Is the objective truth.
    Haas frames are usually lighter than competitors, motors are smaller, no rollers guideways and so on...
    We have 3 Haas minimills running nickle based super alloy castings, equiax, direction solidification, and single crystal. They have been for years and still function well. I don't know if there's any more of a torturus application for a machine lol.

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  22. #174
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    More people bitch about them because more people own them. More mouths to talk about it even if the % rate of failures is less it’s still more failures than joe exotics machines who only sold 10 a year.

    I’ve had troubles with some of mine. But I buy older machines on the cheap. It’s worked for me. Had more time than $$

    A new close to bone stock machine is a great deal. Often they have packages machines that are great deals with lots of options. (Only thing that ticks me off there is the best sales I have seen where not for North America….. $55,000usd well option vm2 machines only in India. I’m looking at you haas. I would have jumped on that one but not an option…… but I digress)

    Love my used vf2. Loved my x2 tm machines. My tl-1… was not a huge fan.

    Good value machines. Quick local parts if needed. Lots of people to ask questions about on PM


    (Cold fire 1 sunset was to early IMO tho)

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  24. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I often wonder how many of the haas haters have actually run a haas vs making some shit up.
    You can easily make the counterargument, how many Haas loyalists have run better machines?

    You can cut anything on any machine if you baby it enough. Saying you cut nickel alloys all day long on your Haas doesn't mean much of anything by itself. How much quicker would you machine the same thing on a Mori, or even a Doosan?

    And those proclaiming the value proposition; it's been proven time and again that Haas are not cheaper than Doosan when similarly optioned, and absolutely not cheaper than one of the many Taiwanese machines that will still outperform it.

    I get that Haas has a nice control, and I get that people like using it, and I get that Haas are made in America and people want to support domestic manufacturing, but the rest is just fantasy. Haas are not competing at the level of other MTB's. Sad, but that's reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    You can easily make the counterargument, how many Haas loyalists have run better machines?

    You can cut anything on any machine if you baby it enough. Saying you cut nickel alloys all day long on your Haas doesn't mean much of anything by itself. How much quicker would you machine the same thing on a Mori, or even a Doosan?

    And those proclaiming the value proposition; it's been proven time and again that Haas are not cheaper than Doosan when similarly optioned, and absolutely not cheaper than one of the many Taiwanese machines that will still outperform it.

    I get that Haas has a nice control, and I get that people like using it, and I get that Haas are made in America and people want to support domestic manufacturing, but the rest is just fantasy. Haas are not competing at the level of other MTB's. Sad, but that's reality.
    I've openly said it before, I know haas isn't the fastest or most powerful machine, it may not be the best machine. But I've run enough different machines to say it's pretty much on par, results wise, with most of the middle of the road machines.

    They would have been out of business long ago if they weren't.

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  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I've openly said it before, I know haas isn't the fastest or most powerful machine, it may not be the best machine. But I've run enough different machines to say it's pretty much on par, results wise, with most of the middle of the road machines.

    They would have been out of business long ago if they weren't.
    Results, sure. Time taken to get there? Which goes back to the value argument...

    As far as still being in business? Honestly, and with no offence intended towards anybody or their choices, that's down to mindshare and marketing. Same as Kurt vices and Bridgeports and so and on and so forth. The first name on everyone's lips, but pure mediocrity when objectively compared to the competition.

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    Our 2005 vm2 is still singing along just fine, had the spindle replaced a few years ago...still hits numbers, wish the lookahead was better but whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    You can easily make the counterargument, how many Haas loyalists have run better machines?
    I programmed for some Kitamura horizontals that struggled to hold +/-.002" on Z. Do I say Kits are bad machines? No, I say those particular machines were beat up and needed rebuilding. I expect that a lot of people have treated their Haas machines poorly, and then when they get worn out lambast the machine, while they've treated higher dollar machines with kid gloves and then rave about them. That's not to say a Haas can stand toe to toe with a Kern or such, but if you treat it right it will treat you right. Yearly maintenance and calibration, and I could still shave tenths after six years of Ti and 17-4 at Helical's recommended parameters (not whittling!).

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  31. #180
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    True story:

    Couple guys at a shop convince owner that of the machines they plan to purchase, one being a vertical mill, buy the Haas to run a production part. It would be easier to get the new college grad use to "how this shop does things" and tested before putting on higher value machines.

    No joke, the guys in that department intentionally set it up to run that same production type part but a Stainless variant with the sole intention of showing how bad it was so they could get rid of it because they were so scared of losing their jobs to college kids.

    So the truth is that the Haas did look REALLY bad compared to the 15yr old Mori of same size running same job. However, a call was made to Haas rep to tell him what was really going on and that the intent was always to run the aluminum variant.



    Haas are good commodity machines and abundant and controls are easy. Thats about it. Ever compare the ACTUAL shop floor space of a same spec machine to a Doosan or something? Always takes up more.


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