Anybody taken apart a Biax flaker?
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  1. #1
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    Default Anybody taken apart a Biax flaker?

    Hey guys, I was GIVEN a Biax 8E flaker in pretty rough condition (box badly rusted), but with all blades and in almost working order. I say almost because it's all there, but the motor wouldn't run.

    After a serious few hours of fighting, tapping, strap wrenches, pipe wrenches and various combinations of curse words, I finally got the knurled chrome ring off and separated the motor from the gearbox. Motor was bound up from a combination of rust between the rotor and stator and probably solidified grease in the rear bearing (one in gearbox end is free and smooth).

    I managed to get it to turn by working back and forth and then blew out the windings and rotor/stator gap with air. The motor will now run, but it sounds like a rock crusher and you can feel the clicking in the shaft when you turn it by hand. I have only run it for a couple of short bursts to prevent burning up the windings.

    The brush plugs are so stuck I can't get them out, either. Screwdriver just smears the plastic without removing. Again, stopped before I totally destroyed the slots. I have not found a breakdown on line and figure parts are not available, anyway.

    I have a motor shop in the same building as me, so have access to whatever bearings I might need... IF... I can get the rotor out. I have brushes in the box, so can replace those, as well as cleaning up the armature and slots.

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    What exactly is the question? Sorry, not trying to be a smart-arse, just not clear what you're asking.

    I have a Biax scraper of about the same vintage. The brush plugs unscrew, they're normal RH threads so if yours don't come out, they're badly stuck is all.

    The armature pulls out without major dramas, I used a pair of Vise Grips padded with copper and pulled it out in line with the stator. Rear bearing came out with the armature. All in all, what you see is what you get. There are no tricky hidden bearing retainers etc.

    Now, if it turns out yours is buggered beyond repair due to some electrical issues, I'd really like the motor casing - good chance it's the same as mine which has a nasty crack around half the circumference just behind the aluminium ring.

    So keep me in mind if you have to scrap it out.

    FWIW parts are nonexistent - I got that from the sales manager at Biax Germany directly. Nice helpful man, he checked for me, but nothing available.

    PDW

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    Give Ed Dyjack a call, he can repair them blind folder I think. He may have some of those caps. I might have some too....Have to look in the pole barn. I had them apart 20 years ago, but for now...my memory is a bit off..lol
    Address: 3801 Stobart Rd, Milford, MI 48380
    Phone248) 684-4260 Email is [email protected]

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    The brush caps would not be hard to make, they are only plastic.

    I have a couple of spares and measured up the thread.

    I suspect it is supposed to be 16mm X 1mm as the devices are european made, the OD of the thread is 0.625" and maybe 26tpi would fit.

    20151219_202929.jpg 20151219_202650.jpg20151219_202610.jpg 20151219_201943.jpg

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    Google Biax 8e practical machinist. There is a post with parts list, drawing for 8e that may be helpful for disassembly.
    Sorry can't paste link from my phone
    Edgar

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    Thanks PDW, exactly what I needed to know. Better to know I can grab the shaft with pliers and pull it out than to try it and tear something up. Sending message.

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    I had little trouble getting the armature out of my 7EL. This thread may give you some useful information.

    7EL motor disassembly

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    Thanks, Tom. That is exactly what I was making sure of... that the armature pulls out without having any other securing methods. I still have to get the brush plugs out before I can pull it, though. Going to work on that here in a little while.

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    If the question is simply anyone taken one of these apart, not sure the exact model but I took a Biax scraper apart once. Bought it at auction...looked like new...but it wouldn't run at all. Eventually found one of the solder traces on the electrical board had separated somehow, fixed that and all was well.

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    I was just making sure I wasn't missing something holding the armature in place that I might break and ruin the works. Still haven't got the brush caps out. I am pretty well resigned that they will be totally destroyed before they come out. I don't have a small metric threading lathe on hand, so will need to procure a set from one of you guys or I'll have to sneak and make them on that despicable Summit 20" lathe at work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    Give Ed Dyjack a call, he can repair them blind folder I think. He may have some of those caps. I might have some too....Have to look in the pole barn. I had them apart 20 years ago, but for now...my memory is a bit off..lol
    Address: 3801 Stobart Rd, Milford, MI 48380
    Phone248) 684-4260 Email is [email protected]
    Rich do they carry spares for the Biax scrapers? I have Harry Bloom's Biax and the plastic slide that actuates the switch is broken. I've had it apart and the switch itself looks fine, it's just the plastic slider thing that is toast. Unfortunately it's missing so I have no idea what it originally looked like so can't even 3D print a replacement. Harry put in an inline switch and that works fine as he did a good job, but it means taking my right hand off the scraper each time I turn it on and off and I find that most annoying. It's a 7ELM I believe.

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    I just spend 10 minutes looking for those brush caps.
    Brand New 643650 4 Brush Cap for Makita Fits Many Tools See Below | eBay

    Also years ago a guy called me about Old Flaker parts and I told him to adapt a drill motor to attach to the flaker head. He never called back, so maybe it worked. Rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Rich do they carry spares for the Biax scrapers? I have Harry Bloom's Biax and the plastic slide that actuates the switch is broken. I've had it apart and the switch itself looks fine, it's just the plastic slider thing that is toast. Unfortunately it's missing so I have no idea what it originally looked like so can't even 3D print a replacement. Harry put in an inline switch and that works fine as he did a good job, but it means taking my right hand off the scraper each time I turn it on and off and I find that most annoying. It's a 7ELM I believe.
    That is a Matabo Motor and it looks like a model like this one. Maybe you can take a photo of the motor housing and email it to the Aussie repair firm down there. Product catalogue handheld powertools - Products - Metabo Australia - Power tools built by professionals for professionals


    I have a BL-10 with a broken switch and I also installed a in-cord switch. That design with the flimsy plastic part sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Rich do they carry spares for the Biax scrapers? I have Harry Bloom's Biax and the plastic slide that actuates the switch is broken. I've had it apart and the switch itself looks fine, it's just the plastic slider thing that is toast. Unfortunately it's missing so I have no idea what it originally looked like so can't even 3D print a replacement. Harry put in an inline switch and that works fine as he did a good job, but it means taking my right hand off the scraper each time I turn it on and off and I find that most annoying. It's a 7ELM I believe.
    Is the switch similar to the old blue model Pete? I *might* have that switch kicking around because I removed mine to fit a speed pot, which happened to fill the hole perfectly. I fitted an inline switch and yeah it is a bit clumsy but gaining variable speed was worth it.

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    Unfortunately not I'm afraid. Well the switch itself may be, but the electrical switch part is a long way from the "switch" you operate on the outside. The motion is translated from the thumb "switch" to the actual electrical slide switch by a long plastic slide, and that's completely missing. I guess it broke at some stage. I remember Harry saying he was in the middle of a job and just wired in an external switch in-line. Normally it wouldn't be a hassle, as I'd just model and print up a replacement, but not having the original broken one I don't know exactly what that slide thing is supposed to look like. The amount of dicking around isn't worth it if I can just buy a replacement. Well, I hope that's the case anyway!

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    Email Ed Dyjak he buys them from Matabo...he probably has the matabo parts breakdown too...He could send it first class mail to you.

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    I hit him after the holiday rush. Thanks Richard.

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    Sorry Rich I missed your post where you said it was a Metabo motor and just noticed it then. Hey that's awesome news, yes the switch certainly looks very similar if not the same as the photo you linked to. There's a power tool repair place on my way to work. A lot of places like that shut down over Christmas/New Year, but after that I'll call in and see if they can help with a spare. Even better is confirming it's a Metabo, as it should make getting spares like brushes easier if required. I stripped down the whole mechanical section to make sure it was properly lubricated etc when it arrived. But Harry had done a great job on maintaining it and there was not visible wear or any other craziness going on in there. It was impressively built, everything was hardened and fitted absolutely perfectly. I don't know what the "correct" procedure is to adjust the stroke, but I just get my hex key and lever the holes around until the hex adjusting head comes up and can be reached. I thought that all seemed a bit bodgy and would damage the holes in the long term, but everything is hardened and I presume is just the way it's done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Sorry Rich I missed your post where you said it was a Metabo motor and just noticed it then. Hey that's awesome news, yes the switch certainly looks very similar if not the same as the photo you linked to. There's a power tool repair place on my way to work. A lot of places like that shut down over Christmas/New Year, but after that I'll call in and see if they can help with a spare. Even better is confirming it's a Metabo, as it should make getting spares like brushes easier if required. I stripped down the whole mechanical section to make sure it was properly lubricated etc when it arrived. But Harry had done a great job on maintaining it and there was not visible wear or any other craziness going on in there. It was impressively built, everything was hardened and fitted absolutely perfectly. I don't know what the "correct" procedure is to adjust the stroke, but I just get my hex key and lever the holes around until the hex adjusting head comes up and can be reached. I thought that all seemed a bit bodgy and would damage the holes in the long term, but everything is hardened and I presume is just the way it's done.
    If it has the green motor its a Matabo. Those scrapers are made in Switzerland and assembled by one man. I visited the BIAX Factory last spring when i taught my first scraping classes in Germany. The main Biax plant is in Maulbronn Germanyand the official company name is Schmid & Wenzel and the Biax is a small part of their business. Their main line is meat cutting equipment used in meat packing plants around the world and they also sell high end air grinders too. There are 3 ways to find the hex stroke adjustment screw. An easy find is to look at the blade holder, as it has to be at the top of the stroke when the hex bolt is at the adjustment hole, Use your wrench to rotate the round cam retainer until you see the hex bolt, or push the blade holder up with your thumbs (if the machine is tight, this won't work) or stick you hex wrench in about a 1/2" and pull back on your hand to the motor end and the wrench hits a lever that pushed the blade holder up to the top. That is a improvement the green ones had over the blue ones.

    The new machine will come out with some of my ideas on improvements. Instead of a leather strap and hand grip there will be a handle that resembles a wood plain front handle, a LED light and possibly an air blaster. They already updated the scrapers by shipping them with the stroke adjustment in the middle as they used to be shipped at full 3/4" stroke and people never read the instruction book and used a 140r blade and long stroke and scratched the heck out of their machine. that's why for years people said they were for roughing only. Merry Christmas and happy holidays everyone. Rich


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    Wow, that's fantastic insight into the factory Rich, thanks for that!

    Mine is too tight to pull the blade up, but I will check that lever idea when I get home. That sounds like a better and faster way to do it than to slowly cam the thing around.

    I like the idea of the improvements. I will try that LED idea, small self-contained LEDS could easily be mounted on the front. However I find that sometimes the light angle is important when the blue starts getting thin and harder to read, and highly dependent on the ambient light. I have excellent lighting in that part of the shop but often have to swap ends purely just to get a better light angle. However a little blower would be brilliant, I really like that. I hand scrape toward me, but generally prefer to power scrape away from me. I have no idea which is technically "correct", that's just my humble experience on which I prefer. However the chips get in the way when scraping away from me. I think I have some small blower fans left over from some 3D printer projects where I was using them for cooling, so I'll see if one can be mounted with a printed nozzle somewhere on the machine. Brilliant idea, thanks!

    Sorry for the thread drift.

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