Asking for your idea on K & T Horizontal & Vertical Mill rebuilds
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cottage Grove, MN 55016
    Posts
    7,448
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4017
    Likes (Received)
    4450

    Default Asking for your idea on K & T Horizontal & Vertical Mill rebuilds

    The forum has been pretty boring lately and I figure it's time to have a learning experience. If you have been reading my info for a few years you know I like to ask questions to make you think! I know the answer to my question but I want you to learn by thinking instead of me telling you the answer right away. I want everyone to be a detective and think about it. The Pro's Please let the Hobby Guys answer first. Pro means you were paid to rebuild someone else's machine. I picked 2 on Ebay. I tried to cut and paste the pictures, but I can't. Maybe someone can help out here, so when the machine is sold we don't loose the pictures.

    OK - I have 2 machines Both a Kearny and Trecker Mills. 1 a Plain Horizontal model 2 K with a 12"x56" Table, 50 Taper Spindle, 15 to 1500 RPM. I see it's on Ebay, K&T Plain Horizontal Mill,, 2K, 50 Taper | eBay machine is sold we don't loose the images

    and a

    Horizontal CMS 13 1/2 x 64" Table also on Ebay. 'Milwaukee' K&T, vert. Milling, Mod. CSM, 131/2 x 64” | eBay

    Both machine show wear in the column ways and when you indicate the table top it is off .010" in the Y (saddle in and out) and X is off .010" Top of table left to right.


    Lets skip the ideas of why it's off and adjusting the gibs, etc. lets say we did all that and we have it completely apart laying on the floor ready to be rebuilt. What's next? Let's make PM a learning experience again. Rich

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,632
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3092
    Likes (Received)
    3479

    Default

    first thought is its always survey, head scratch and develop the plan. Faced with the job I'd think it through carefully, but my first reaction is it'll be the column that is the starting point. The spindle is fixed and it all has to be square and aligned to it

  3. Likes Richard King, Paolo_MD liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    29,058
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I tried to cut and paste the pictures, but I can't. Maybe someone can help out here,
    Screen Shots works after a fashion. I opened the SS in Paint Shop Pro and cropped same. Half Ass, but what you can do on Ebay.

    Naturally, you could do this to all the areas that Ebay will let you look at
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails kt-screen-shot.jpg  

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cottage Grove, MN 55016
    Posts
    7,448
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4017
    Likes (Received)
    4450

    Default

    That is what I was looking for. The rule of thumb is
    1. If it is a fixed spindle you have to start there as once it is scraped you can not adjust a fixed spindle to compensate for an alignment issue as you can with a spindle head that can be scraped. One still needs to square the column and knee square. On the horizontal machine you have to be sure the spindle bearings are good, if they are good use them or replace them. Then align the column to the spindle bearings axis.

    If you have a Connelly Book "Machine Tool Reconditioning: look at Chapter 27.7 (figure 7) and 27.8. I do it differently but the results are the same. I set a ground and steel parallel approximately 1" thick, 4" high and 36" long with a 1/2 13 hole drilled into the 1" side centered at 18. Then I use a 12/13 threaded rod to bolt the parallel to the face of the spindle, then I use a mag base resting on the column and turn the spindle and indicating the outside 17 1/2" and shimming under the low side until the parallel reads zero zero with tenths indicator as it is rotated. Now if the bearings are 6" (to make the math easy) the rotation spec is 3 times better then the actual bearings. Note in Connelly book 27.7 b and 27.8 b as they discuss this too.

    My Dad Herman "Red" King taught me his method and using the fixed parallel on the spindle, you don't have to dismantle and re set up the parallel on the column. You can re-test the axis alignment easy.

    Remember the Connelly book was written by machine BUILDERS and not rebuilders so we rebuilders have an advantage because we can skip many of the scraping tasks and tests the builders show us in the book.

    Once you know the column and spindle axis are one in the same then you go to the next step. Oh and to do this correctly you need to have the column laid down and on back as shown in the book. If you do not own the book you cann find it online on Scrib or Ebay where I sell it. Rich

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cottage Grove, MN 55016
    Posts
    7,448
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4017
    Likes (Received)
    4450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Screen Shots works after a fashion. I opened the SS in Paint Shop Pro and cropped same. Half Ass, but what you can do on Ebay.

    Naturally, you could do this to all the areas that Ebay will let you look at
    Thanks John....Showing the spindle and it is "Fixed"

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cottage Grove, MN 55016
    Posts
    7,448
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4017
    Likes (Received)
    4450

    Default

    I use a larger then column way scraped surface plate or as close as I can find to blue up the column and mount a gag base on the surface plate and indicate the parallel or a King-way to test the long way and a height gage to test the side to side as Connelly shows. Also not on Figure 27.7 how they have the wood crib under the column, I am assuming it is setting on 3 points so it is self aligning and won't rock.

    I don't intend to teach you how to rebuild a machine in this thread, but to help you understand how professional rebuilders and builders think. I am not looking for an argument with someone with another opinion and hope Charles will delete any of those who love to argue. Have a wonderful Fathers Day. I plan on relaxing the rest of the day. I will start to rebuild a Leblonde Engine lathe tomorrow and will also write and teach what and how I do those in another thread soon. Rich

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Surbiton, surrey, UK
    Posts
    1,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1691
    Likes (Received)
    873

    Default

    half decent pics of the machines posted




  9. Likes Richard King liked this post
  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Country
    PHILIPPINES
    Posts
    2,185
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    379
    Likes (Received)
    536

    Default

    There is a thread somewhere in here where one of the members did a full on bare casting restoration on a model 2 K. I'm thinking it was cnctoolcat but after about 2 hours of looking I cant seem to find it. Somewhere I have the original 50 taper vertical bolt on head i'd part with just for shipping. My machine gave out about 15 years ago but the head was still like new so I crated it up in case I found it a good home.

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Posts
    408
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    344
    Likes (Received)
    186

    Default

    This might be the mill you are thinking of.

    Steve Lindsay Shop Tour

    Looks like he left the knee on and did a knee up restoration.

    Rich,
    After scraping a horizontal mill, would you want the spindle perfectly perpendicular to the table or tipped up or down a slight amount?

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cottage Grove, MN 55016
    Posts
    7,448
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4017
    Likes (Received)
    4450

    Default

    I would make the spindle zero zero in both directions and scrape the front of knee high. Something My dad taught me was to use the mill number as the spec as the tip backward of knee per foot. or .002" in 12" using a precision blade or granite square or Triangle. Side to side I leave it zero zero or exactly square with the up travel of the knee and locked at top and bottom, always locking when feeding the same direction.

    Why do I leave the front or operator side high? Who knows the answer?

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    washington
    Posts
    210
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    I would make the spindle zero zero in both directions and scrape the front of knee high. Something My dad taught me was to use the mill number as the spec as the tip backward of knee per foot. or .002" in 12" using a precision blade or granite square or Triangle. Side to side I leave it zero zero or exactly square with the up travel of the knee and locked at top and bottom, always locking when feeding the same direction.

    Why do I leave the front or operator side high? Who knows the answer?
    You leave it high to compensate for the weight of the vise and stuff you are machining.
    The table will sag with the rate of load on the table. Many mills will handle between
    400 to 800 lbs. on the table. When you have a much bigger load you should be looking
    for a bed mill, or 'old iron' heavy duty mill like a Cincinnati, or a K&T.

    Paul

  14. Likes jkopel, Richard King liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •