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  1. #1
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    Default Babbitt bearings

    I am re doing the bearings in my track rollers on my dozer and was looking into Babbitt would it be suitable for the application. If I make a jig to cast them into the track roller with a mandrel to hold the axel size would I need to machine the bearing after casting and pressing the mandrel out. Is grease good lib for babbitt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sjbrady View Post
    I am re doing the bearings in my track rollers on my dozer and was looking into Babbitt would it be suitable for the application. If I make a jig to cast them into the track roller with a mandrel to hold the axel size would I need to machine the bearing after casting and pressing the mandrel out. Is grease good lib for babbitt
    Grease, Babbitt alloy, and the typical "track roller" environment should be "good" for turning the Babbitt into a metallic grey paste that resembles old-skewl pipe fitter's litharge but doesn't work as well.

    Got a market lined-up for that stuff yet?

    Bronze, on the other hand..... or even certain plastics... or sealed rolling-element bearings..
    Last edited by thermite; 07-15-2019 at 06:42 AM.

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    What make & model dozer ?

    Kinda important one should think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    What make & model dozer ?

    Kinda important one should think.
    Only "sort of"'.

    The physics, metallurgy, tribology, and exposure to negative factors all "scale" reasonably well, even for elastomeric tracks.

    Babbitt can yet-today make a grand material for even a high-precision lathe spindle, well-lubricated, but starts to fall-down rather badly where cyclic impact-loads and high wet and abrasive intrusions with imperfect servicing prevail.

    Not the same environment as a "micro-Babbitt" connecting rod bearing, pressure lubed and riding on a hydrodynamically maintained "wedge" of reasonably well-filtered oil.

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    load of application has a effect. that is when soft materials are used for bearings under high load they tend to distort, flow or wear out extremely fast. often dont last even a week if psi or load too high for undersized bearing surfaces.
    .
    and when lack of lubrication occurs some materials when they get hot will distort or wear out even faster than normal

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Only "sort of"'.

    The physics, metallurgy, tribology, and exposure to negative factors all "scale" reasonably well, even for elastomeric tracks.

    Babbitt can yet-today make a grand material for even a high-precision lathe spindle, well-lubricated, but starts to fall-down rather badly where cyclic impact-loads and high wet and abrasive intrusions with imperfect servicing prevail.

    Not the same environment as a "micro-Babbitt" connecting rod bearing, pressure lubed and riding on a hydrodynamically maintained "wedge" of reasonably well-filtered oil.
    Blather, blather, blather.

    I don't care about all that.

    I care about if the OEM used Babbit, and HOW.

    I have seen numerous designs "down there" (undercarriage) and until the metal face seal was developed, most had very short lifespans.

    BUT, some had better configs than others, and no need for "wheel re-invention".

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I don't care about all that.

    I care about if the OEM used Babbit, and HOW.
    Why? So you can defend, even replicate a bad choice when present-day makee-fitee labour, recurring lube maintenance labour costs and downtime costs can more than pay for a BETTER choice than was made "back in the day" or just "back in the cheap"?

    Get real!

    OP said track idlers on a 'dozer.

    Everything about a 'dozer is severe service. They tend to work in water, mud, and mineral fines abrasive as Hell in the dry as well.

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    i have seen triple sealed ball bearings before, used to call them farm or manure bearings, hard to turn but triple seals helps keep the dirt from getting in on tractors and stuff. got to make sure press fit or bearing doesnt turn internally the bearing od just slides or spins in bearing housing wearing it away. or wears away the shaft journal

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    i have seen triple sealed ball bearings before, used to call them farm or manure bearings, hard to turn but triple seals helps keep the dirt from getting in on tractors and stuff. got to make sure press fit or bearing doesnt turn internally the bearing od just slides or spins in bearing housing wearing it away. or wears away the shaft journal
    Not just fines. manure is corrosive. So, too sewage, and many innocent-looking soils, often with bacterium that actually EAT greases. Part of why constant purge is so essential.

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    I don't believe that Babbitt would be a good choice for a bulldozer bearing for reasons mentioned above. It doesn't do well in dirty, sandy conditions such as where a bulldozer would be used.

    I have a vintage 1940 Parks Wood plane that has Babbitt bearings on it's spindle. The spindle runs at 4,200 rpm. There are lubrication points for the bearings. They are still in excellent condition after many years of use in a lumber yard before I got the machine.

    As mentioned above, sealed bearings would be best for a bulldozer. I wonder what sort of bearings were in the machine when new?

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post

    I don't care about all that.

    I care about if the OEM used Babbit, and HOW.

    I have seen numerous designs "down there" (undercarriage) and until the metal face seal was developed, most had very short lifespans.

    BUT, some had better configs than others, and no need for "wheel re-invention".
    I do not recall seeing various ways babbit has been used in undercarriage, but I have recast babbit in a number of
    pillow block type bearings for rock crusher feeder aprons.

    In that ugly environment, babbit and plenty of grease was serving better than any sealed bearing type.

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    I Just spoke to Cody at Moglice and he is going to send me some info on using Moglice on applications like this. He said he does work for Komatsu and Caterpillar factories. As soon as I get it, I will cut and Paste it here.

    Hello Richard,

    It was a pleasure talking to you today about applications in plain slide bearings in earth moving equipment. We have done many applications when Babbitt is called out for a bearing liner and we replace with Moglice. Below is a little application process.

    Materials needed:

    QTY.
    (1) 100g Kit of Moglice FL/P
    (1) 100g injector
    (1) 100ml of Liquid Separator
    (1) 100ml of Cleaner/Degreaser

    Material Calculation:

    OD volume - ID volume = Bearing in^3 x 33 g/in^3 = Total grams to fill

    (note: Moglice FL/P = 33 g/in^3)

    It is also recommended to have .063" Radial bearing thickness.

    Notes to use materials:

    Preparation:

    Roughen adhesion areas down to a roughness of .3-.5 mm (.011"-.019") and then clean chemically with our Cleaner/Degreaser. Make sure that the working temperature is in the acceptable range of 20 degree C +/- 10 degree C (68 degree F +/- 10 degree F). The opposing side you will be molding will also need to be cleaned with the Cleaner Degreaser.

    Alignment:

    Holding the bushing centered on the shaft is easily done by using centering rings at both ends of the bushing. The centering rings can be made to pick up an accurate O.D. on the bushing and an accurate O.D. on the shaft. This will hold the bushing concentric to the shaft in the molding process.

    Applying Separator:

    Using a spray bottle apply the liquid separator to the shaft. This process should be done 4 to 5 times allowing the separator to dry for 10 minutes in between coats. Depending on the clearance needed for oil more or less coats of release agent may be needed.

    Mixing:

    When mixing Part A container can be used as the mixing vessel. Pour part B into Part A container, it is important to wait for 5 slow drips from the container. With a mechanical mixer, mix the two parts together, but do not exceed 100 r.p.m. To degas Moglice after mixing, pour Moglice FL/P in a long thin stream in a cartridge at an angle.

    Application:

    After venting injection cartridge, it can be placed in a standard caulking gun. The material can be injected into the bushing filling the void that was created by the centering bushings. Allow at least 18 hours at ambient temperature for Moglice to cure. By using a little heat(not to exceed 100 degree F) and a little force in one direction the bushing will slide off.

    I attached a picture of a large bushing that was made on-site. If they have any questions regarding there specific application just give them my contact information. It was nice catching up with you again, I will tell Drew you said hi.

    Kind Regards,
    Cody Reeves
    Mechanical/Sales Engineer
    Devitt Machinery Co.
    3345 Market Street
    Aston, PA 19014
    Ph: 610-494-2900
    Cell: 484-336-3109
    Fx: 610-494-7541
    For Moglice
    Devitt Machinery Company | Devitt Machinery Company
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20150722_101702-2-.jpg  
    Last edited by Richard King; 07-16-2019 at 03:23 PM.

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    Moglice would certainly be worth trying. The worst that will happen is that it will wear out prematurely. As others have stated, babbitt probably isn`t a good choice.

    There are several types of "babbitt". The cheapest is a lead based material that would be totally unsuitable. The highest grades are tin based and are used in high quality bearings. These are also rather expensive. Babbitt will also require some sort of mechanical anchor to be machined into the shells; if it`s poured in to a bore machined for a bushing, it will shrink and simply fall out of the bore.

    What were the original bearings? Generally, the designers had the correct bearings pretty well figured out although modern materials could be an improvement. Caterpillar used bronze from the 1930s through at least the 1960s and possibly later.

    What is the purpose of the dozer? If it`s an antique that will run only at shows, most anything will work except lead based bearing metal. If it`s occasional light duty pulling a plow or light dozing, Moglice will probably be entirely satisfactory. If it`s heavy use in rough conditions, probably bronze is the best and perhaps only choice. Remember, if you run over a log or rock 1/2 the weight of the dozer is going to be momentarily carried by one roller.

    Whatever you use, the grease gun is your tractor`s best friend here.

    Good luck with your project.


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