Brand new mill table hardness dilemma.
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Brand new mill table hardness dilemma.

    Does anyone know if there is a standard typical hardness, or any information for milling machine tables?

    Long story short. We have recently purchased a new Fortworth csvbm-5vl, and the table is incredibly soft. Our other mill tables test out at about 55-60 rockwell C, but this fortworth shows 20 rockwell C. This is makes it very difficult to not damage as even a single chip caught under a parallel, or a toe clamp bolted directly to the table will cause a large dent.

    I cant recall any of the shops i have been to needing to put parallels under a toe clamp in order to not damage the table.

    The supplier claims that this is actually a feature for superior vibration dampening, and to not mark up the parts youre machining. (hardened parallels and vise jaws seem to go against the "marking up parts" theory.. no?...)

    They follow this up with saying these benefits outweigh the con of having to resurface the table with a stone every so often. I strongly disagree.

    Anyways, has anyone else experienced this? have any suggestions? Is there any companies that create custom meehanite tables?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    163

    Default

    Interesting
    I personally work around old school manual machines ive never heard of or seen a machine tool with a HARD work surface only hard ways

    Chips under anything are a big no no in every shop I've worked at but whatever
    What machine do you have that has a hard work surface
    Got a pic or two ?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    5,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1194
    Likes (Received)
    3568

    Default

    55-60RC is near bearing ball hardness, much harder than I'm used to seeing in my machine tables. But cleanliness should be a given when setting materials or vises down, surely you'll ding a vise base if clamping on a chip rather than cleaning properly first.

    I'd look at your procedures and standards for cleaning before I'd get so concerned about table hardness.

  4. Likes Kaszub, sfriedberg, Paolo_MD liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    i understand chips are to be cleaned. i was using it as an example of how easy this table is to damage, not that we clamp chips into our setups.

    either way, simply tightening 2" wide toe clamp down, will cause a 2" wide dent.

    the other machines in question with the hard tables are TOS FGS's

    our Kent also has a significantly harder table

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    5,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1194
    Likes (Received)
    3568

    Default

    Well, the toe clamping does sound too soft, my Haas's aren't great machines but the tables will take that sort of use. But if it's an edge load I'd still use a Al plate under the clamp edge just as good practice.

  7. Likes Paolo_MD liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    St.Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    1,964
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    116
    Likes (Received)
    437

    Default

    I haven't a clue (never checked) as to how hard my tables are but I know I can stone or file a riser down with relative ease.
    We used to have all the large mills with over size aluminum sub plates permanently bolted down with hardened 1/2" bushings for pins and four 1/2"-13 inserted bolt holes around each pin hole. They used them 24-7 for years on end with only ever removing them if it was required to get to something broken on the machine. I can't see how your cast iron table could be any softer or more easily damaged than those?
    Dan

  9. Likes sfriedberg, Paolo_MD liked this post
  10. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    5,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1194
    Likes (Received)
    3568

    Default

    This video: FORTWORTH Model :CS VBM 5VL Vertical Boring and Milling Machine - YouTube shows the machine to be a Taiwanese bed mill, if it was pretty cheap to purchase then perhaps not that surprising on the quality or processing of CI used.

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Tried to edit my post. Ended up deleting it. Whoops

    I guess we have been spoiled with our previous mills. 30 years old and the tables still look brand new.

    Yes the machine wasn't too pricey. $100 000 to our door.

    How soft the table is just seems very foreign to me. Not what I had expected there. However the rest of the machine is great. No complaints other than the table

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    5,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1194
    Likes (Received)
    3568

    Default

    Wow, that much? Of course in Loonies, but still. I don't usually say this, but did you check out a Haas of roughly the same size? Did you require an open-frame machine for your needs?

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    748
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    245
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DTM0 View Post
    Tried to edit my post. Ended up deleting it. Whoops

    I guess we have been spoiled with our previous mills. 30 years old and the tables still look brand new.

    Yes the machine wasn't too pricey. $100 000 to our door.

    How soft the table is just seems very foreign to me. Not what I had expected there. However the rest of the machine is great. No complaints other than the table
    Mayabe a sub plate would help?

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    748
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    245
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Wow, that much? Of course in Loonies, but still. I don't usually say this, but did you check out a Haas of roughly the same size? Did you require an open-frame machine for your needs?
    Right there with you , sounds a lot for the machine in YouTube video.

  15. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    5,084
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1194
    Likes (Received)
    3568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaszub View Post
    Right there with you , sounds a lot for the machine in YouTube video.
    Yeah, but the Can buck is about (or aboot) 75% of a US dollar, so that's roughly $75K here (or less). I don't know what the equivalent Haas would go for, but perhaps another $20K or so. And if they need open frame, you'd have to remove the shielding and fudge the safety interlocks, that may be a no-go for their purposes.

    But having a tool changer makes so much of a difference in functionality, I wouldn't buy a machine without one unless I absolutely had too.

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DTM0 View Post
    either way, simply tightening 2" wide toe clamp down, will cause a 2" wide dent.
    Sounds scary to me
    What's going to happen in a crash
    Good luck

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    It may seem like a lot. But try getting anything to your door in Canada. You'll find its a pretty good price for what you get.. hell a 8" Kurt vice is 2000 alone. Oil skimmer? Another $600.

    Yes it has the pneumatic draw bar.

    My only gripe is how soft the table is.

    Anyone have hardness testers? I'm curious as to what other people's machines test at.

  18. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Also factor in tooling. Taxes. Etc


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
2