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Charbonnel Aqua Wash inks, your experience ?

Warren

Cast Iron
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Location
Sutton, NH
Rich King has mentioned Charbonnel inks in several posts and we even tried it at the last Springfield VT class. but time constraints did not lend themselves to experiment during the class, so we went to using Canode.

I have been playing around with it some this week and while I like it very much, however I found it dries on the surface plate to quickly for my liking anyway. I was thinning it with windex. I would put a blob on the plate in my mixing area & spray some windex on it, mix it around with a brayer, but that did not work too well, it left thick caked blobs of blue and thin areas. The thin stuff which would transfer to the work area OK with a rubber brayer. The thick blobs had to be broken up some more before it was usable.

As it dried out in the thin layer I was using to rub my part, i would spritz with windex and let it dry some till I got the consistency I was after. It was a bit of a pain in the ass. However I did not get that gritty feel that Canode sometimes initially gives you on the plate that you have to wipe off with your hand before you can rub your part.

Richard how do you initially mix it? in a operate container? That is what I am going to try next. I will experiment some more and add my findings in the future. It has some great potential in my opinion.

Chime in if you are using Charbonnel

Cheers,
Warren
 
I hated Canode when I first used it! I had to learn how to spread it. I used the red water based Charbonnel just last week as a highlighter like I used to use red lead way back when. I dilute it with Windex just like the canoed. I was scraping some aqua Rulon last week and I used it straight. When I first saw it used was in CA when Tom Lipton was using it. Out there we used the red as a highlighter and the Prussian Blue color straight. He used and it spreads better with a hard ink roller or brayer. The soft foam roller I use with the Canode can't spread the Char thin enough. I have not deluted the Char ink when I use it as bluing.

I first used Permatex Prussian Blue when I was a kid and hated it as it smeared so easy. Then we used Dykem High Spot and I loved the way it spread and blued things up, but hated how it stained everything, fingers, nose, ears, etc. lol...then I used Canode and now I used Canode and Char. Try using a soft roller to spread it on a separate surface like you use a paint pan and paint, then spread it on the surface your bluing up softly with the soft foam roller, then run the hard brayer or roller on the that surface. Then roll it on with the hard roller on the surface to be blued up. One problem I see used is they press the soft rolloer down hard and apply way to much blue on. One need to only spread on a thin layer and not squeegee any ink weather it's Dykem, Canode or Char. Experiment be a detective and find what works for you. Be sure to buy the water based Char. as they sell it in oil based type too. I still like the Dykem best but refuse to use it because it stains. Try diluting the char with the Canode. No matter what ink you rub the parts together longer to thin the blue on the high spots. I have been telling the students lately rub and count to 25 when you rub. Remember when I talked about "reading" the blue. same color is lowest. grey or black is 2nd highest and shinny as a mirror is the highest. Rich

(drove home from Oklahoma yesterday and we got home at 3:30 AM a 12 hour drive, but we stopped and chatted with Phil Perry in Kansas. He is a former 2 class student who is the fellow who is know for his "Gold Plated Lathe" yawnnnnnnn Rich
 
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The HiSpot always seems to thin out ant lighten in time with what I want as the work progresses, and of course never dries out. Seems just about perfect other than the crazy staining.

Canode does not work as well for me, it seems to have to be thicker or it does not show up because it dries very fast, and windex works kinda so so, because there is a fine line between smearing and just right.

Does the Charbonnell work more like the Canode or the Hispot? Sounds like it is much like the Canode.

Is there any definite advantage over Canode?

Been looking for something better than windex for thinning, something that does not dry out, maybe the propylene glycol auto coolant (the not so toxic kind).
 
When you are using watercolor paints for painting you often add some glycerin to keep them from drying out on your palette while you are working. That might be an option here as well.
 
JST;3245242T said:
Seems just about perfect other than the crazy staining.

Gloves.. for OPERATING machine tools - are a no-no.

OTOH, I've never seen any good reason to NOT make use of the disposable and "many varieties" ones sold cheaply in great dispenser boxes when messing with High Spot (more colours than just the blue, BTW) or Stuart's Micrometer (same again).

Charbonnel makes some of the finest and most consistent pigments in the entire art world. Trust that to those from a family of artists, etchers...and other paint scrapers.

Savoir-Faire | Charbonnel

If I were in need, however, mine would be oil or Ester carried. Not waterborne.

To each his own, etc.
 
I have been playing with the Aqua Wash as well after I saw Oxtools talk about it in a video. The easy clean up is a life saver and PR 88 gets the mess off my hand and upstairs to deal with the little ones quickly. I got 3 colors to try , Blue, Red, Black. I did some reading and I guess it is oil based but the mixture allows it to bond with water much like soap does while removing dirt.
The blue is pretty good by it's self. I really liked the black untill I got the lighting better. The black was very very thick almost like a paste. The black was hard to read how thick it was. There was fine line between too much and not enough. Red worked great to rub on as a highlight.

I called around to a few art places that sold the product and asked what I should thin it with. Mineral spirits was the answer I got. It works very well. I found I kept adding too much. So I filled and old eye drop bottle (X's all over the thing in case anyone got curious). That made it really easy to put a tiny amount in.

I'm still getting the hang of spreading it over a large area. Canode seems to be easier in that respect. I will say in the basement the Aqua wash does get thicker if it's cool.

Just thought I'd share my experiments.
 
In the last class we experimented with it. We mixed it in a small 1" x 1" gallon gug CAP 50 / 50 with Canode. The Char was the water based mix. This worked well we first dabbed it on with a small 1/2" wide paintbrush and roled it out with a hard rubber brayer / roller. We also used the brand BIAX and DAPRA sells, it's made in Germany and I will have to add the name later as I forgot. It reminds me of Dykem as I like both but my hands are stained from it. I will stop using the Canode once my stock is gone and use the Char blue and the Char red diluted with Windex and used it as a highlighter (red lead substitute). When you apply the highlighter wipe it off so it is dry to your touch. It should be transparent so you can see the surface under it.

Same goes when you apply the Bluing, Transparent or you will get a smear. I have also telling students to run on it or rub a straight edge to a part to a count of a minimum of 10. Then "read the blue" same color is lowest, darker or black is higher, grey and shinny high spots are the highest.

Warren you should wipe or wash it off every so often anyway as crud contaminates ALL blues. You have to roll it on and wipe it with your hand to feel of crud is in it. Then re-blue with new. We also washed the brayers off 2 to 3 times a day, but we had 10 students using it too.
 
Warren you should wipe or wash it off every so often anyway as crud contaminates ALL blues. You have to roll it on and wipe it with your hand to feel of crud is in it. Then re-blue with new. We also washed the brayers off 2 to 3 times a day, but we had 10 students using it too.

Rich, thanks for your notes. I have not reported here since my first post, but I have used it again with better results. This time I used it straight without any thinning. being careful to keep it thin and it worked the treat. I also found as you say to clean it off on occasion. It seems to be a much finer pigment than what is in Canode which can be gritty feeling when first applied. I like it a lot. I will pick up a small brush next time I get back to scraping and try that method of application too.

Cheers
 








 
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