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  1. #41
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    I have some of that cleanser, and I will give it a try!
    Sometimes, and odd product will work wonders, On rusted screws and other fasteners, I use heat and Bees Wax.
    The arm, I scraped the rust off first, but the drilling head is still stuck, I was able to drift it away from the column a couple of inches so far using jacks.
    Now, I have the arm at the top, I can better get under the head and apply heat to the lower dovetail way that the head travels on.
    So far I have not broken anything!

    It looks like its going to take two gallons of Acetone, and somewhat less ATF, to finish the drill. That is where this mix is economical. I forgot to mention that PB Blaster works remarkably well with the brass brush also, but is much more costly.
    I use a long plastic funnel, to pour the mix in tight areas around the head/arm.
    It has been a good physical work out this week so far, I will try to make progress on the head movement today, applying heat, and try to melt some Bees Wax into the lower dove tail way.

    One more home remedy here for a little help in heating is, a propane torch that has had the jet drilled out larger, "make your own personal flame thrower".
    I use two of these for heating large parts, such as for the arm and column breaking free.


    Best not to use such a device indoors! Its half way up, so look out, if you chose to do a modification to a otherwise safe house hold tool.
    Last edited by donie; 04-03-2021 at 02:50 PM.

  2. #42
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    Best not to use such a device indoors! Its half way up, so look out, if you chose to do a modification to a otherwise safe house hold tool.

    That sounds like good advice to take. Thanks for sharing, machines do look good and you have enough projects to make most around here very jealous.

    Charles

  3. #43
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    There are many gov facilities around me, one of the most common small lathes here is the Monarch 10ee, lots of them still around.
    My brother recently pulled a K&T #3 out of a scrap yard in great condition, all the tooling was spilled out on the ground, the machine needed nothing.
    I think alot more machines that are hard to get into a normal residential garage, are going to end up in the scrap.
    I am trying to not go to scrap yards, its like going to the dog pound, and not coming home with a dog.

    I have been doing the nasty clean up on this drill, and cleaning the sump on the old gear head lathe.
    I snapped a some shots of removing the the drive pins on a brass tag, using a washer to keep from scarring the plate when slotting the drive pin, so it can be backed out with a screw driver.
    I saw someone on youtube prying on one, this works better.


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  5. #44
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    i wonder why you are using "atf". maybe some oil of lower viscosity would be better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    i wonder why you are using "atf". maybe some oil of lower viscosity would be better.
    Why? Because he forgot who suggested it!



    Waste of money, ATF is. Moved on.

    #2 heating oil.

    It's just-a-cheaper-diesel. Road Tax thing. Or not road-taxed, actually.

    Methyl Salicylate. Penetrant, mostly.

    Grapeseed oil. Wax-former. Cheap enough.

    And ditch the brass "suede brush". Machine-tool ain't blue suede shoes!

    Bronze bristle hand-scratch brush, rather.

    Maintenance Brushes / Hand Wire Brushes | Spiral Brushes

    Stainless ones are for clearing built-up varnishes, fossilized coolants, and coprolytic paint fossils.

    Pictures of rust?

    Why wuddja?

    Find all the ugly yah can stand on the evening news, any given day.


  7. #46
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    I have tried regular motor oil, and thinning with kerosene, the only lower viscosity oil I have is spindle oil.
    The ATF seems to work better, I dont know why, adding kerosene to ATF seems to make no difference.
    The warmer the surface the better, the mix really boils when warm.

    Again! I did not invent this method, read about it, tried it and displayed in photographs the results.

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    atf is around 36 iso and i dont think it has any magic properties (except when in a transmission). if you have iso 10 spindle oil and mix with acetone it should penetrate better. btw, surface tension of acetone and alcohols is about the same.

  9. #48
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    I will not even attempt to explain, why this works, or speculate what may be better. Its a waste of time! But I can show you, like so,








    In my opinion it works.



    Taking on projects like this is hard work, there is no magic there.


    It does help to get off this forum to get something done! And cut that cable to the boob tube, rotate or stagnate....

  10. #49
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    This Morris radial drill is identical to the one on the USS New Jersey, located in the maintenance machine shop, I think its worth saving, but for sure will take more time then its really worth doing so.
    The weather has slowed me a little but, I am now armed with two pairs of Armstrong planer screw jacks!
    The two seen in the first photo are 4 ton #2, and I have a 2 ton #1 in the back and one on top bearing on the column.
    I can move the head forward now, but I am going to wait a day or two for the weather to clear up, and I can better apply heat, and make it much easier, and lees chance of breaking something.
    Getting the head to move on the arm is the most difficult thing I have encountered so far on my rusty adventures, but I am close!

    two jacks to the left pushing the head outward on the arm, and two others pushing from behind the head and on top, its like the head has to be walked off the rust slowly by the order of the jacks being tightened.

    When I can heat up the arm, it is much easier to move the head, should be warmer outside soon, and I can apply some propane, and get this thing moving free.

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    Wonderful skill, effort and dedication ! Please keep 'em coming - it's a joy to watch.

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbital77 View Post
    Wonderful skill, effort and dedication ! Please keep 'em coming - it's a joy to watch.
    Much more fun than doing the work yourself...cleaning out old machines is satisfying but also a ton of work. I agree, nice to see some words in action instead of just words.

    Charles

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  14. #52
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    Thanks for the interest, progress has been very slow, but it is getting easier moving the drilling head toward the end of the arm.
    The design of the arms ways are different then a mill, the head rolls on two unit ball bearings, when clamped at the top, the head pulls upward, and tightens on a sharp dovetail at the bottom of the arm.
    As I move the head, the newly exposed surface looks good, not really rusted. More sticky from old oil it seems.

    The rust rings on the column are noticeably fading already! I wipe the column often with kerosene and oil.
    I have two Armstrong screw jacks on each side of the arms ways, and two more, one behind, and one on top. In effect, I have to work the jacks in a pattern to rock the head, and walk it of the rust/dried oil it is sitting on.


    I can report improvement, this was how bad it was, going around in the rocking motion pattern, using the four jacks snugging them firmly with regular wrenches it moved this far each cycle.

    Now I am getting a more encouraging .020 each cycle, and my forearms are getting big like Popeye, or the guy leveling the lathe in the Monarch manuals.
    I have worked those jacks so many times, I have been using two sets of wrenches to ease the pressures points on my gloved hands!
    Snap on, way too thin on the edges! I went to vintage Williams, and SK! for more cushion.


    Nice fat vintage S-K wrenches, and the old Williams, it really helps.
    Heat is the most important aid here, today is supposed to be close to 80 degrees outside, I should be able to make more progress, or even get it free.
    Anyway cycling from hot to cold, pushing on the head, seems to be breaking it free.
    The modified torch under the arm, heating the bottom dove tail.


    A quick in near real time update,
    I had to reset the upper jack, the photo shows the slow progress from the black line where the head was parked and rusted in place.
    The covered part is in not bad shape, the scraping is visible.

    I cant get my head in there, I put the camera into the recess between the ways, and found one of the ball bearings that the head glides on has the outer race broken.

    I have moved the head enough outward, that I should have found pieces of the bearing along the way.
    I am thinking the arm was jammed up before it was drug outside to rust, and could be why it was tossed out, this is a really slow moving epic project, but cant stop now.
    So far, it looks like it will get easier.
    Last edited by donie; 04-29-2021 at 04:50 PM.

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  16. #53
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    Too late to edit the last post, so I will start another.

    I cleared away some of the paint chips in the bearing pathway, where the busted bearing in the last photo is, and found part of the outer race is still under it.
    It looks like it may have rolled up on something that got in there.

    When the head movement lock lever is locked, it lifts the head up, and jams it into the sharp dovetail on the bottom rail.
    When the drilling head lock lever is released, the head lowers down onto the two ball bearings that ride on a hard steel strip on top of the lower rail, in the recess below the gear rack.



    The really large drilling head on this machine straddles the arm, it looks to weight over 1000lbs, but when it is resting on the ball bearings, it will easily glide with the hand wheel.
    Not gliding so easy now taking tons of pressure from screw jacks to move it .020" at a time!
    With the broken jammed bearing near the column, the head is tilted and jammed into the dovetail.

    I have to admit, I am enjoying this, because its a difficult puzzle that at least one person has given up on, and others kept on walking.
    About those bearings,
    They are mounted on studs inserted into the head casting behind the counterweight on the left, and part of the feed mechanism on the right.


    So, in normal repair in a facility such as the repair shop on the USS New Jersey, there are more easy ways of pulling the 1000lb drilling head off a machine like this, with the overhead equipment and such.
    The factory did half way make it so the head travel bearings can be replaced more in a field situation "like my driveway!"
    On the back of the arm is a door, but, you have to saw a hole between the gear rack, and bearing glide way to access the bearings and studs and complete the hillbilly repair.
    What I have to do now, is get the piece of race out, from under the broken bearing that is jamming every thing up, so the head can then be moved to the one spot where both bearings can be changed, but the head has to move to do that, and I have to saw a hole.

  17. #54
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    "IF" you had access to a crane could you set the machine so that the column was horizontal and possible the broken bearings would fall out?

    Very interesting post, best one in a long time.

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  19. #55
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    I have just a little experience with radial drills, there was one at the local CC. I am looking forward to using this machine.
    I drew this sketch to show where the problem is,

    This is looking at the end of the arm, and the profile of the ways.
    Something had wedged under the left side glide bearing, and is pushing the head upwards, and wedging the sharp lower ways bottom edge. That is how the lock lever works by pulling the head up, and the sharp angle at the bottom locks the head in place.
    When the lever is unlocked, the head drops on the two ball bearings, and then can be traversed with ease using the hand wheel.
    Right now the glide bearing on the column side is broken and cocking the head tight.
    My plan for now is to remove the handwheel\pinion gear, that will give a better view of both glide bearings, and perhaps I can forge a punch, and try to knock out the obstruction from the more open outer end of the arm.
    If that fails, I will have to bring in a welder I work with, and he may arc it out.

    Back on the original subject of scraping paint, some surfaces are not easy to scrape, and from my very scientific experiments, one scraper is just not going to do it all.
    I have two really hard areas to remove paint, one is here on the round base of the drill, some very tough paint, but not as tough as clown yellow, I am also dealing with.
    Anyway, I found on some surfaces it is much easier to get under and rip layers of paint up, by pulling toward you.
    I took another toasted DNMG 432 lathe insert, brazed it like a farmer to this piece of scrap, and then ran a diamond cup wheel across it in a cutter grinder "very sharp", but it can be easily done by hand on a green wheel.
    The cutter is cocked upward at the tip, making the backside dig in when pulling toward you. This is very effective!


    Using other methods is not possible for me at this location, making a bunch of noise will piss off the guy next door, and I think he knows I am the one that has been throwing oil soaked rags in his back yard.
    Really the guy is a good sport, I have an old gear head lathe next to the drill, its sump was really foul, it had 10 gallons light thread cutting oil with 100lbs 111 tricloro tapping fluid soaked chips that had turned jet black, and a gallon or two of water that smelled really bad. Those tapping fluids were banned in the 90s. The type that stains the mill table under the vise.

    And....an updated photo of the head movement bearing,

    There is still pieces of the race and a ball under whats left. I can relieve pressure by having the lock on, and will try to knock the pieces out..
    Last edited by donie; 05-02-2021 at 07:45 PM.

  20. #56
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    Donie, thanks for all the photos and content - good stuff.

  21. #57
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    You are certainly welcome, sharing the experience, eases the pain.
    I removed the handwheel, the pinion that runs on the rack obstructs the view of the two bearings. I was thinking I could get something over the outside bearing to knock the broken race out from under the column side bearing, but there is not enough clearance.
    So, I am back to moving the head using jacks, but only have to go an inch or so to get a hammer swing, and get a punch in there from the left side.
    That might take a few days, because I have to heat the head up on the lower angled way with propane. I have to be mindful of the people that live around here because it makes alot of smoke from the atf/acetone cheap rust mix, and PB Blaster I keep putting on there, smells really bad, So, wait for the right time and a the right breeze.
    Using a digital camera along the way has been helpful, and a good way to see around corners, I couldnt get a mirror there without blocking the light. I have a few more photos,

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    Can you get an air hammer in there? Those get quite a bit of hit without needing backswing.

  23. #59
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    The slot between the ways is only 1" deep, but when I put the lock on hard, it lifts the weight of enough, that the broken piece will wiggle. I think its not going to take much to knock it out.

    I pulled the angled handwheel out, this is what the rack pinion gear looks like that works at an angle. I think it is a miracle that it is not broken.

    The housing is eccentric to adjust engagement. The radial drills have a long history, and sort of a different design then other machines.

    I have a lathe project next to the drill. This machine has nothing wrong with it, it is just caked up with cutting oils, and smells really bad.
    The lathes paint was not bad, but after using paint thinner to wipe the oil off it, the paint peeled up. So, it gets new paint.
    This shot showing the train wreck in my driveway, also shows that an awesome 3 in 1 machine can be put together with a small radial drill and gearhead lathe!

    I get fried working on the drill, I can scrub on the lathe.

    Thinking out loud, and rambling to myself is normal for me, so I will ramble a bit here.
    Looking way back in this thread, I scraped the rust off a small section on the drills base. That area has been oil/solvent soaked for months, but the layer of rust on the iron surface is bone dry.
    This is a weird junk yard observation I made on the drill, mill, and the McIlvaney lathe that is still sitting there, When they were wet from rain, the rust becomes trans lucent, and I could see the iron surface through the rust, at certain angles, and could photograph it even better.
    Anyway, after months, of using penetrating oils, and such, as I move the drill head out ward, the rust on the ways is dry, the oils are not getting in there even using heat.
    I did learn this from two Navy Machinist, one WW1, the other WW2. When faced with a problem like this, if possible to get it hot enough to melt Bees Wax into the joint, that will penetrate the rust.
    I found that to be true on fasteners, and smaller things. I am going to give that a try, I think I can do that without causing damage to the machine, I just need to get a fairly small area that hot, but will have to get the whole head pretty warm before the small area can be brought up to temp to melt the wax.......
    Last edited by donie; 05-04-2021 at 03:14 PM.

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  25. #60
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    Fantastics posts, dog approved!


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