Colchester Student 1800 -- problem
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  1. #1
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    Default Colchester Student 1800 -- problem

    colchester-front-levers-1.jpg
    Hi, I'm new here. I will add pics of my workshop at a later date!

    I currently have:
    Beaver mill - which I've added power feed, and 3 axis DRO.
    Colchester Student 1800 - which I am resurrecting currently!

    I need help!
    The Colchester has it's ABC lever jammed on B, and it's RST lever stuck on R.
    The VWXYZ lever works fine, as does the 12345678 joystick.

    I have tried jiggling, wiggling etc gentle tapping, forward/reversing etc etc - no luck.
    I am thinking that I will need to remove the front cover to the lever box.

    1: Drain oil!
    2: .... can anyone offer any help/advice of having done it themselves? Photos would be brilliant.

    I am worried that if I remove the front cover that "bits" will fall off inside, and I won't know where they fit.
    Do I remove all handles and then the shafts stay behind, or do the handles come away with the cover etc etc

    Please, someone clever help me!

  2. #2
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    I have not taken one of these machines apart but I can provide this which may or may not help you.

    I will just keep updating this post with info as I find it, if I do.

    This guy has some very useful info that will go with the pictures I have posted. It will really make the exploded views make more sense and what you are looking at/for (all the info needed is on page 2 & 3 of the direct link posted below)

    His main page Colchester Triumph 2000 lathe

    Direct link to what you really want. http://www.chainganger.co.uk/T2000/S1800gearbox.pdf


    Good luck

    Paul

    colchester-1800-student-cover.jpg
    gearbox-casting-controls.jpg
    gearbox-front-cast-levers.jpg
    gearbox-gears.jpg
    headstock-control-levers.jpg
    Last edited by Paulie02; 10-28-2020 at 04:40 PM.

  3. #3
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    I suspect a key has sheared and it has jammed up. You can Hope and pray it will be easy. You may want to disconnect the spider and see if you can turn the shaft by hand or a leather strap wrench once the gears are removed. Pages 14 shows a shear pin, , 18 -spider.. not the exact book...but basic info is the same... http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/5286/9485.pdf If you can't figure it out, take pictures as you remove the cover and what's inside. I would not worry about parts or broken teeth falling deeper in the machine as the housings are independent most of the time....have a magnet handy to clean things. Please share your photo's and what you fin as you figure it out and fix it.
    Last edited by Richard King; 10-28-2020 at 02:51 PM.

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    Cozy,

    I've attached the relevant info for the exploded views you will need.

    Here is a link to someone else who has a lot of very good info on the machine you are looking at as well.

    Colchester Triumph 2000 lathe

    Direct link to a PDF with the info you really need/want to make the exploded views make sense. All of the info you will need is on page 2 & 3 of the pdf.

    http://www.chainganger.co.uk/T2000/S1800gearbox.pdf

    Hope this helps you out

    Paul

    colchester-1800-student-cover.jpg
    gearbox-casting-controls.jpg
    gearbox-front-cast-levers.jpg
    gearbox-gears.jpg
    headstock-control-levers.jpg

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    Thanks, the shafts all rotate as they should. The feed is just jammed in that particular combination. I wonder if one of the forks has come adrift/ jumped etc etc Just guess work at the moment.

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    Maybe the detents for the gear positions are stuck with dried oil and goo.....If the levers turn ,there is no reason the gears wont slide,except again stuck to shafts with congealed oil......the oil in the feed box leaks pretty quickly,and generally its a good idea to top it up every time the lathe is used.....I use very thick ,gooey oil that stays put on the gears for a while...hopefully.........The feed gears are small and wimpy,and can be subject to damage from jammed up thread feeds ,for instance.......some of the high lead feeds have only a few teeth on the pinion,and Ive seen the teeth bent.......but thats easily felt turning the feed box by hand ,when it has tight and loose places.......School lathes often get a thrashing in the coarse threads ,cause the little angels set up the lathe to crash the saddle for a mean joke...........And yes,pull all the screws,and take off the front plate ,nothing will fly away or pop out......it alll comes away as unit.Easily returned by meshing the shifter forks etc.

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    I'm getting some good replies here Much appreciation.
    I'd still like photos of the insides of the cover etc, if anyone has ever had this off.

    Also: can anyone clarify the type of oil used in the box - I am bound to lose some as I take the cover off etc, even after draining, so it would be nice to get some of a compatible oil to top up with.
    Also, the best compound\product to "stick" the box cover back on with - It doesn't appear to have a gasket, to presumably some kind of generic jointing compound?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cozy View Post
    I'm getting some good replies here Much appreciation.
    I'd still like photos of the insides of the cover etc, if anyone has ever had this off.

    Also: can anyone clarify the type of oil used in the box - I am bound to lose some as I take the cover off etc, even after draining, so it would be nice to get some of a compatible oil to top up with.
    Also, the best compound\product to "stick" the box cover back on with - It doesn't appear to have a gasket, to presumably some kind of generic jointing compound?
    Regarding the jointing compound we always used " Hylomar " also known in the trade as " Rolls-Royce " blue. It's a bit like a blue tooth paste and it stays plastic in use.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    We can discuss this forever, just take the cover off and figure it out.... Looks easy peasy to me.

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    Depending on how far you intend to go in taking it apart there is a " gasket " mentioned in one of the drawings. It could be that the thickness of the gasket will be relevant to the correct assembly of the gearbox. Some are , some aren't.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    If you dont want to take it apart,try filling the box with petrol a couple of times,and let it soak ......any congealed oil may soften and make the levers easily movable......Dont force anything ,for sure.......Two stroke fuel is a good solvent for such projects,has a bit of oil in it.

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    OK, so I drained the oil - nothing came out!
    Removed the cover to find this...

    Sludge - part rust, part congealed oil...
    colchester-student-inside-selector-cover.jpg

    Rusty selectors etc...
    colchester-student-under-selector-cover.jpg

    This pinion is what the ABC lever should slide - but it's seized on the shaft...
    colchester-student-abc-lever-pinion-stuck.jpg

    This pinion is what the RST lever should slide - but it's seized on the shaft...
    colchester-student-rst-lever-pinion-stuck.jpg

    The ABC and RST levers actually operate remarkably smoothly in their holder - but will be a lot better after I have stripped and cleaned them etc.

    There was a gasket on the join.

    This lathe only cost me £60, so I am willing to put the work in on it. The bedways etc are in good condition, and the headstock insides\oil, is like new.
    It came with travelling steady, quick change tool holders, taper turning attachment, so will be a good machine when finished. I intend to fit a DRO as well.

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    Exactly what I said...and as you see the oil drains away ,and should be topped every time the lathe is used.....Thick oil (like steam cylinder oil) hangs onto the gears and inhibits rust,and doesnt leak away so quick......For the price,you stole it...well done!

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    Just need to work out how to free up the seized pinions.
    I have tried gently tapping them, but they haven't moved. They are soaking in penetrating oil now, so will try again tomorrow.

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    Looks like it may have been waterblast cleaned ,so be absolutely sure to check the saddle/apron for sludged water and rust trapped in lower pockets ......if you dont want to pull it down ,a good squirt of a mixture of kero and oil will at least delay the damage.......Also pour clean oil down the spindle bearing lube holes too ,while turning the spindle ,to flush out any water that may be lurking there.......Now here s something I dont often say,but fill the head with "car engine oil" and run the machine......reason being car engine oil will emulsify any water ,and drain it away when you change it for hydraulic oil.

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    That's a mess. It really all needs to come apart and be cleaned properly. It makes me wonder what the inside of the apron looks like. Still for £60 you can't complain too much.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    I agree with Tyrone that just needs to be completely dismantled and cleaned properly. It will not be all that bad and the end product will be much better. But at least you know why it is stuck at this point.

  21. #18
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    [QUOTE=Cozy;3650443]OK, so I drained the oil - nothing came out!
    Removed the cover to find this...

    Sludge - part rust, part congealed oil...
    colchester-student-inside-selector-cover.jpg

    Rusty selectors etc...
    colchester-student-under-selector-cover.jpg

    This pinion is what the ABC lever should slide - but it's seized on the shaft...
    colchester-student-abc-lever-pinion-stuck.jpg

    This pinion is what the RST lever should slide - but it's seized on the shaft...
    colchester-student-rst-lever-pinion-stuck.jpg

    The ABC and RST levers actually operate remarkably smoothly in their holder - but will be a lot better after I have stripped and cleaned them etc.

    There was a gasket on the join.

    This lathe only cost me £60, so I am willing to put the work in on it. The bedways etc are in good condition, and the headstock insides\oil, is like new.
    he
    I believe I said to take off the cover too...... If your mechanically inclined no need to talk yourself into fixing things, just do it after talking to to the PM experts, as you did. :-)

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    You said the head gears look good- have you checked the spindle bearings?

    Once the feed/screwdutting gearbox is done, definitely strip and clean the saddle. Square head Colchesters are notorious for getting coolant into the saddle displacing oil and rusting into (almost) solid.

    You did very well on the price providing the spindle bearings are ok. I would check them first before investing time/money in the rest of the machine.

    L7

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    After 12 hours of soaking in penetrant, and some GENTLE tapping, both pinions are now free and sliding up and down smoothly
    I will continue to strip and refurbish the feed box.
    My next mission will be the saddle.
    All headstock bearings seem smooth etc.
    Thanks for the advice\help everyone

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