fundamental question about getting way oil where it needs to be

metalmagpie · Jun 30, 2021

My lathe has a lot of flat ball oilers. For example, the compound has 3 of them. Two on one end feed oil grooves underneath, to lubricate the compound moving on its ways, and the other one is in the middle, where it lubricates the lead screw. Of my two at one end, one has never seemed to pass any oil. Today I dug into it. I ran a sheet metal screw into the top and yanked it up with a claw hammer. This worked great and didn't seem to hurt the ball oiler any.

Then I wound the compound all the way out and pulled it loose so I could see the bottom. That's when I found out about the oil grooves. The weird thing is, when I dripped oil into the recess on top where the recalcitrant oiler goes, it ran through to the oil groove fine. And when I dripped oil into the ball oiler loose in my hand, the oil came right out the bottom. So I reinstalled it and dang it it didn't pass any oil again.

Can someone please explain to me how this can be and what's going on here?

metalmagpie

Milland · Jun 30, 2021

The oiler ball sits so well into the brass cup that it forms a vacuum-tight seal? That might prevent outflow of the drops of oil you squirt in. But you'd think running a screw into the seat would damage the seal.

A few pics of the oiler top and bottom might help.

[Never mind, just saw your other thread with pics. I think it's sealing too well.]

what kind of ball oilers are these and where can I get them?

sfriedberg · Jul 1, 2021

I haven't gotten around to dealing with it yet, but this is a complaint I have with almost all the ball oilers on my import 16x40.

I have used a high quality Swiss oil can with a small slit cut in the tip so I can depress the ball and still squirt oil. I more often use a small (25ml? 50ml?) plastic bottle with a blunt Luer syringe tip, so I can depress the ball and still squirt oil. For the problematic oilers, nothing gets through. Not with ball fully depressed, not with ball half-depressed, not with making a puddle of oil around the ball and then plunging it up and down with a scriber tip.

It's really annoying, and I'd rather have a crude hole with a felt plug in it than these non-functional oilers.

About 1/4 of the ball oilers behave as expected. I've about convinced myself (without tearing it apart to look yet) that there isn't actually an open oil passage under most of the rest of them. It is possible, but from the "feel" unlikely, that the ball itself is serving as a piston seal inside the oiler body.

atomarc · Jul 2, 2021

I too have found the only reliable way to squirt oil into those ball oilers is to make a very precise slit in the end of the pump oiler, otherwise the ball merely plugs the end of the oiler and nothing happens. The pump oil cans have a tremendous force and if you can do it properly, the oil WILL flow into what ever cavity you're trying to lubricate.

Stuart

sfriedberg · Jul 2, 2021

Stuart,

Slit pump tip does not work for me on 3/4 of my lathe's oilers. It should, so I conclude there's something badly wrong with the oilers or their installation (like they're sitting in blind holes with no passages!). When using the blunt tip syringe, I can get the tip between the depressed ball and the lip of the oiler. That doesn't work, either.

Other Stuart

Richard King · Jul 2, 2021

Some Manufactures counter bored holes and installed oil fittings that look like grease fittings. If you can't install a one shot lube pump I prefer them as they don't allow crape in there. Or even a pipe plug socket head screw. Stuart...was it you who had the blind hole in the compound? I was writing about that a few days ago someplace....lol what a surprise and figuring out why that way was dry after you squirted oil in there...LOL
Stu took the class we had at Columbia Forge in Portland....I think....huge machinery.. I love taking pictures of the classes :-)

sfriedberg · Jul 2, 2021

Columbia Steel Castings is a very neat place. They were nice enough to give Richard's class a tour of much of the foundry facility itself, including quite of bit of time in the relatively small shop where they cast chain from modest sized induction furnaces. I'd never seen a setup for cast linked chain before. Interesting sand molds. Briefly stopped in the big foundry and got to watch gases flaring out of holes in the sides of a big cylindrical flask during a pour from an overhead crane. Avoiding falling in either of the two quench pits in the (dark) foundry house. :-)

The rail road tracks visible in the background of the 1st photo are where they roll a flatbed train car in and out of one of their annealing furnaces. The building we were in was mostly machining equipment, rather than foundry stuff, so I guess they ran out of room for furnaces elsewhere in the complex and added one more in their Engineering department building.

Oh, and I have totally given up on trying to comb my thinning hair on top since those photos were taken. Now I get it buzzed off to 3/8" long every couple of months.

JST · Jul 3, 2021

If someone went to the trouble to put in an oiler, odds are that oil is supposed to go there.

I'd pull that oiler out and see if I could rod-out whatever is clogging the oil passage.

If it is not a straight shot, then look for random plugs on the machine that may plug the "drill access" points.

I added oil passages on a mill I totally worked over (it did not have any), and definitely had to have some plugs where I drilled a passage to intersect with others. They ended up in odd places, like under the table in a couple cases.

rimcanyon · Jul 9, 2021

You could also replace the ball oilers with a flip-cap oiler with same o.d. Monarch lathes used to come with the oilers that have a screw cap that hangs on a small "chain" (actually a single link). When Gits stopped making those oilers, Monarch started supplying the flip cap oilers, even though the ball oilers are still available.

mark in Portugal · Jul 9, 2021

My old mill has zerk fittings where oil should go; confusing because it also has zerk fittings for grease.
Anyway, I tried a zerk end on a pump oiler and it won't push oil through.

I went the other way, and put way oil in a grease gun, and that works great.
A bit cumbersome, but way oil seeps out from the ways in a pleasing manner.

The same machine has ball type oilers in places where space is tight. I made a little adaptor but success is limited so far.
I'll try cutting a little slit in is as described by you guys, maybe that will make the difference.

Scottl · Jul 9, 2021

The system is air bound. You need an oiler that will vent air while adding oil.

JST · Jul 9, 2021

Being "air bound" could foul up a system where oil is supposed to drip down by gravity. A system which uses pressure from a pump or can should not be "air bound", the pump pressure should drive the air out and oil through, as long as there is a path (the passages are not blocked, etc).

If the pump (oil can or built-in) will pump thick oil through, it should also force air out.

For that matter, I have never yet found a place where oil cannot get to, so long as there is actually a path (it won't usually get through solid cast iron). That's different from "enough" oil getting there, however.

metalmagpie · Jul 10, 2021

My compound has 3 such oilers. One of them pukes oil back. I removed the compound from its slide. The "bad" oiler led to a hole that went through to a well-made oil groove. I didn't see anything in the hole, blew it out anyway. It was just a hole, leading to a groove, all apparently machined correctly. If I put a drop of oil on top of the compound with the oiler out, it ran right through. If I put oil into the top of the oiler with it out on the bench, the oil comes right out the bottom. But when I put the oiler in the hole, oil does not seem to pass through correctly.

metalmagpie

triumph406 · Jul 10, 2021

metalmagpie said:
But when I put the oiler in the hole, oil does not seem to pass through correctly.

metalmagpie

I put the nozzle of the oil can over the ball and pump until I see oil come of of where it's supposed to go.

JST · Jul 10, 2021

If the can seals in the oiler, and the ball does not block the can spout, then a few good squeezes ought to force oil through.

If the oil can get out around the spout, it won't be forced through. If the ball blocks the spout, oil won't be forced through. That's what the slit in the spout is for, to let oil out into the oil passage past the ball.

mattthemuppet · Jul 10, 2021

have you tried moving the compound as you're trying to squeeze the oil in? I've installed a few of these on my lathe and found that a) drilling the recess where the ball oiler lives a little deeper helps and b) moving the bit that I'm oiling at the same time creates some "space" for the oil to move into.

From what it sounds like, there's a pretty good fit on the parts where the oil is supposed to go, so there's nowhere for it to go to. Giving it a bit more space (drill the recess deeper) or moving the part so the oil is left behind on the surface gives the oil somewhere to go.

JST · Jul 11, 2021

Have not had that issue. The oil pressure usually forces the bearing surfaces apart, even a fairly low PSI over a larger area equals a good bit of total pressure.

There can be an issue if the surfaces are stuck together with "dried" oil. Moving the slide should break the bond.

May as well try moving it, especially if the pump does not produce much pressure. Whatever gets oil where it needs to be. Once the oil is there, it should work OK next time it is oiled.

metalmagpie · Jul 20, 2021

I have found a company that makes oilers in the size I need. Unfortunately, they are in Germany: albertkuhn.de

Their product is Modell 532 - Kugeldrucköler, size 1/2.

Anyone know how I can order a bag of these?

metalmagpie

ratbldr427 · Jul 23, 2021

I wonder if the ball is being forced down enough to block the passage way? The hole seat underneath the ball should have grooves so the ball can't bottom out and block the passage. Over time the crud could fill in the grooves and make a seal/ seat for the ball.

Try mashing the ball down slightly,not bottomed out, and drip some oil on it and see if it goes through.

The metal band around the fitting is probably softer material to seal, seat and conform to the hole. Most of those fitting bodys are pretty hard so a crushable band would make them easier to install without damaging the machine.

metalmagpie · Jul 25, 2021

ratbldr427 said:
I wonder if the ball is being forced down enough to block the passage way? The hole seat underneath the ball should have grooves so the ball can't bottom out and block the passage. Over time the crud could fill in the grooves and make a seal/seat for the ball.

Try mashing the ball down slightly, not bottomed out, and drip some oil on it and see if it goes through.

Good idea. But sadly it doesn't work. When I try to apply oil normally, I get a little puddle of oil on top of the oiler. If I push the ball down slightly the puddle just sits there.

My compound has 3 of these oilers. At least one works correctly. I think I'll try swapping the one that works with one that doesn't. That should tell me if there's a problem with the oiler or with its environment.

metalmagpie

fundamental question about getting way oil where it needs to be

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