Gib turcite

twmcree · Nov 12, 2018

Is it advisable/possible to reglue the existing turcite back onto a gib? Or do I need to purchase new turcite?

Thank you for your advice/guidance.

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DMF_TomB · Nov 12, 2018

i always use new turcite and everything needs to be clean and a rough sanded surface. turcite rather than sanded is often acid treated or some other method so all you do is wipe with solvent.
.
i dont sand turcite. not worth it. often bond failure is cause it got hot from lack of lubrication or coolant chemical damaged the epoxy bond. either way not worth it reusing old turcite.
.
ALWAYS check lube holes not plugged when turcite replaced. obviously its easy for epoxy to plug the holes

Mud · Nov 12, 2018

I glued a piece about half that size back on to it's seat in a VMC and 3 years later it's still in place.

I tested glues and settled on Gorrilla glue (urethane glue)

YMMV, but I didn't want to buy a huge quantity of Turcite to get one little piece, and it's in a location I can easily see for inspection and get to for repair, so I gave it a shot. The Gorrilla Glue holds it quite tenaciously - during testing I had to cut through the glue bond to get it apart.

twmcree · Nov 12, 2018

10-4. Thank y'all for the information

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DavidScott · Nov 12, 2018

If you do glue it back clean it as well as possible, rough everything up with sand paper, and use a good epoxy engineered for this type of bonding. Don't go cheap on the glue, it is the most important part. If you don't use the epoxy used to bond Turcite then here is my cheap pick LINK. I have used this for years to bond metal parts together with good results. When it separates in the container, because it is several years old, just mix it before using.

4GSR · Nov 12, 2018

These guys in Shiner carry Rulon 142

Rulon(R) 142 (Turquoise) Sheet, Rod, Tube, Parts | Boedeker

And Turcite Slideway B

Turcite (R) B Slydway (R) Low Friction Wear Strip | Boedeker

They should be able to provide you a strip of the material size needed so you don't have to buy a full sheet. Thicknesses vary on what they have on hand and what they can get from the factory.

Ken

in2glamisgirl · Nov 12, 2018

Those look like original early style Fadal Gibbs, replacements are available made from 1 pc. bronze.
This was a common failure point and the reason they switched to bronze gibbs.

Maybe not enough surface area for the glue to hold long term?

twmcree · Nov 12, 2018

4GSR said:
These guys in Shiner carry Rulon 142

Rulon(R) 142 (Turquoise) Sheet, Rod, Tube, Parts | Boedeker

That is about as convenient as it gets - thanks for the info neighbor.

Reckon the course of action will be to buy some rulon 142 and make it happen. 3 gibs need it out of x and y. Still haven't checked head.

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Other Brother · Nov 12, 2018

Be sure to get the serrated applicator when you buy the Rulon and the two part epoxy. The cast iron needs to be heated up to burn the oil out, then wipe everything with acetone, not petroleum products. Also score or etch the surface of the cast iron as mentioned above. The applicator has 1/32" serrations so go long ways on the cast iron and then the opposite way on the Rulon. After they have cured for 24 hours you can use a 3/16" ball nose end mill to put the oil grooves back in on a knee mill. Keep us posted...pictures.

twmcree · Nov 13, 2018

Other Brother said:
Be sure to get the serrated applicator when you buy the Rulon and the two part epoxy. The cast iron needs to be heated up to burn the oil out, then wipe everything with acetone, not petroleum products. Also score or etch the surface of the cast iron as mentioned above. The applicator has 1/32" serrations so go long ways on the cast iron and then the opposite way on the Rulon. After they have cured for 24 hours you can use a 3/16" ball nose end mill to put the oil grooves back in on a knee mill. Keep us posted...pictures.

After baking the engrained oil out of the cast, was planning to blast the mating surface of gib with fine sand.

For sure on the epoxy.

Do you happen to have an image of the applicator?

Don't have the luxury of a knee mill. Hand scrapping the oil grooves will have to work.

Will definitely flesh this thread out with some process pics.

Thank y'all,
Wagner.

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Other Brother · Nov 13, 2018

Hi Wagner,

I don't have a photo but I will attach a link below to a v notched spreader. They should have what you need where you buy the Rulon. Your Turcite looks pretty thick so I think 1/16" serrations would be okay, just more scraping to do when fitting the gibs.

I made up an aluminum housing for my straight die grinder that I could adjust the depth to .030" of a ball nose end mill where I had to cut the z oil grooves by hand. It worked pretty good. I attached some photos of it and I will ship it out to you if you want to borrow it. I just went out and took photos of it and fre-handed a z groove, lol. It has a flat side that you can use a straightedge so it will look better. Let me know if you would like to borrow it.

Daryl

V-Notched Spreader

twmcree · Nov 13, 2018

Nifty tool there - that was some good thinking. I appreciate the offer, I think that I will set up a jig and run a trial with the old turcite to see if the epoxy will bond correctly. And thank you for following up on that spreader tool.

For some reason, the bond that failed on the gibs was on the cast side. Took a closer look and realized that every turcite gib had failed. ... leads me to believe that fadal's surface finish method is to blame.. The arbitrary, rough indention from a blasted abrasive aught to be conducive to a stronger bond.

Here is the process that I am going to experiment with: (let me know if y'all have any suggestions)

Cast prep:
1) heat up cast to remove impregnated oil.
2) blast with fine sand abrasive
3) blow off and wipe down with acetone

Turcite prep:
1) scrape old epoxy off surface
2) sand
3) blow particals out, wash off with water?
4) let dry

Glue jig:
Build a jig that will both block the turcite in place to prevent creeping, and also allow me to apply even pressure.

Epoxy:
3M 2216
Use spreader

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Richard King · Nov 13, 2018

twmcree said:
Nifty tool there - that was some good thinking. I appreciate the offer, I think that I will set up a jig and run a trial with the old turcite to see if the epoxy will bond correctly. And thank you for following up on that spreader tool.

For some reason, the bond that failed on the gibs was on the cast side. Took a closer look and realized that every turcite gib had failed. ... leads me to believe that fadal's surface finish method is to blame.. The arbitrary, rough indention from a blasted abrasive aught to be conducive to a stronger bond.

Here is the process that I am going to experiment with: (let me know if y'all have any suggestions)

Cast prep:
1) heat up cast to remove impregnated oil.
2) blast with fine sand abrasive
3) blow off and wipe down with acetone

Turcite prep:
1) scrape old epoxy off surface
2) sand
3) blow particals out, wash off with water?
4) let dry

Glue jig:
Build a jig that will both block the turcite in place to prevent creeping, and also allow me to apply even pressure.

Epoxy:
3M 2216
Use spreader

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Looks good but be sure to clean the rulon off with acetone or the fast dry brake cleaner. Also fast dry electrical contact cleaner.

Richard King · Nov 13, 2018

Other Brother said:
Hi Wagner,

I don't have a photo but I will attach a link below to a v notched spreader. They should have what you need where you buy the Rulon. Your Turcite looks pretty thick so I think 1/16" serrations would be okay, just more scraping to do when fitting the gibs.

I made up an aluminum housing for my straight die grinder that I could adjust the depth to .030" of a ball nose end mill where I had to cut the z oil grooves by hand. It worked pretty good. I attached some photos of it and I will ship it out to you if you want to borrow it. I just went out and took photos of it and fre-handed a z groove, lol. It has a flat side that you can use a straightedge so it will look better. Let me know if you would like to borrow it.

Daryl

V-Notched Spreader

Daryl that surface plates scraping looks pretty sweet! You must have had a good teacher? LOL Daryl, Dad is so proud of you. You teaching here is exactly what I want all my kids to do. Thank You!
PS: If I was there I'd give you a BIG Guy HUG!!

DavidScott · Nov 13, 2018

I would degrease the cast iron before sand blasting/sanding, than again after standing, then again just to be sure, then again because you can't do it too well. I like rubbing alcohol to clean off stuff before gluing, it is relatively non toxic and I just find it works really well. I am a little spooked about acetone as it will attack some plastics and epoxies. I would sand the cast iron right before applying the epoxy to make sure you are gluing to cast iron without a thin iron oxide layer.

3M 2216 is a really great epoxy for this application, can't get much better. I still have some rat holed away. I didn't list it as what I linked to is as good but you can get a smaller kit, at least from what I have found.

The serated applicator is the same as what a tile setter uses to spread the setting compound, just smaller notches.

If the turcite is comming off your gibs I wonder about the ways.

twmcree · Nov 13, 2018

DavidScott said:
I would degrease the cast iron before sand blasting/sanding, than again after standing, then again just to be sure, then again because you can't do it too well. I like rubbing alcohol to clean off stuff before gluing, it is relatively non toxic and I just find it works really well. I am a little spooked about acetone as it will attack some plastics and epoxies. I would sand the cast iron right before applying the epoxy to make sure you are gluing to cast iron without a thin iron oxide layer.

3M 2216 is a really great epoxy for this application, can't get much better. I still have some rat holed away. I didn't list it as what I linked to is as good but you can get a smaller kit, at least from what I have found.

The serated applicator is the same as what a tile setter uses to spread the setting compound, just smaller notches.

If the turcite is comming off your gibs I wonder about the ways.

Thank you!

Haha. Glad you asked - I wondered as well. In fact everything on ways looks splinded. X axis is bonded well.

Check out the head, pulled it this afternoon:

Everything securely bonded on head. Have some tiny specks of metal that need to be removed, but that is about it.

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twmcree · Nov 13, 2018

Richard King said:
Daryl that surface plates scraping looks pretty sweet! You must have had a good teacher? LOL Daryl, Dad is so proud of you. You teaching here is exactly what I want all my kids to do. Thank You!
PS: If I was there I'd give you a BIG Guy HUG!!

I love this place.

Probably the high concentration of competent individuals, who also value competence in others.

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Other Brother · Nov 13, 2018

Richard King said:
Daryl that surface plates scraping looks pretty sweet! You must have had a good teacher? LOL Daryl, Dad is so proud of you. You teaching here is exactly what I want all my kids to do. Thank You!
PS: If I was there I'd give you a BIG Guy HUG!!

LOL, I don't have much time to get on here since I supposedly retired. Just finished up a big turcite job on a Puma2500, then linear rails on a MU-400VA, and now linear rails and ball screw on a Mori NT3200. So much for retirement, I need a job so I can relax a bit. 60 hours a week climbing in and out of machines is getting old.

Wagner, you have nothing to lose, so go for it. I have been successful gluing old Turcite and Rulon on gibs where the customer was on a tight budget and been successful. Keep an eye on them and you can always put new on if they come lose again.

Daryl

Other Brother · Nov 13, 2018

Wow Wagner, that is a huge undertaking. Good job man. You need to move to Michigan so I can hire you.

Very cool, and thanks for posting that. I would have turned that job down! lol

twmcree · Nov 13, 2018

Other Brother said:
Wow Wagner, that is a huge undertaking. Good job man. You need to move to Michigan so I can hire you. Very cool, and thanks for posting that. I would have turned that job down! lol

Ha. What an honor! seriously.

Figured I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight thinking that this kinda crap was in between head and box way... Every gib had its oil holes/grooves filled with this filthy concoction of fiberglass, plastic, rubber, and metal shavings.

There was a bit of buildup, but not anything like the guns. Do have quite a few metal slivers that need removed, nothing serious.

I reckon turning wrenches is the easy part... properly setting machine up back to spec is going to take some real doing. Many new concepts, and a few additions to the tool arsenal required to make it happen

W

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