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Thread: Gib turcite

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    I will be flying home today and if you need some guidance we can chat on the phone. Many times it is easier to hear it then type or read it.
    Really appreciate that Rich.. I will do my best to fulfil my part of the deal and get a foothold on what is required. Will probably take you up on that offer when it gets down to crunch time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    And as David said I have told how to many times when some supposit experts said it could not be done and you had to pull the column. Now they claim it's there idea on how to do it. Same old crap from the fake on here. I am not talking about other brother either.
    understand your frustration, just part of life I reckon. Some personality types are just that way, whether it is intentional or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by twmcree View Post
    on the shoulders of giants here.
    You're the tallest giant of the field as far as I can see.

    W.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

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    I have one burning question. How do you scrape in exact to size the head clamps? How do you measure how much to go when scraping in the clamp? In the thread I linked to you left the clamp fat so the owner had to shim it. I still need to do this to the clamps on my Kitamura. I know it has been done to it before so not sure if I am replacing the turcite or just scraping in the iron. I have about a .003" gap at the top.

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    I am is the process of doing redoing the turcite on my 4020. I had to have the x axis reground the y axis looked good I am leaving it alone. I have not pulled the head but pulled the gibbs. I have to redo all the gibbs. It has been a frustrating experience it took the grinder three months to get the x axis on the saddle done and then life has been getting in the way. I will be done mid summer the way things are going.

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    Alright, finally ready to start getting the rulon application process for the head figured out.

    As suggested/utilized in previous threads, a ground 1018 bar should be used for the contact fixture.

    I do not have access to a grinder.. Is there anyone in TX that y'all would recommend using?

    Thank you,
    Wagner.



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    Quote Originally Posted by twmcree View Post
    .. a ground 1018 bar should be used for the contact fixture.
    I do not have access to a grinder.
    It is only for the one use. A grinder or grinding service should not be necessary, so long as you can get steel CUT in-house or locally.

    Lots of ready-mades out there ground already, from die-steel stock shapes gone surplus to new goods, to bars ground for presses and such as mostly "standard' sizes. Same vendors usually have custom sizes quoted at reasonable fees. Their Day job to supply lots of needs for such goods.

    AFAIK, you are still "good" if you have to slice it to get into the zone, or let there be overhang where it matters not, if there is such an area.

    So long as cut/de-burred at a modest distance from the working platen pressure area for the job, the task should be oblivious to the rest.

    Wait an hour.

    Richard will be along to claim that's all fake.

    He will then give very similar advise in slightly different words. Blend in what you see with your own eyes. That's "PM at work".

    It reduces the risk of missing stuff.

    Last edited by thermite; 12-06-2018 at 08:57 PM.

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    Here again is an example of someone with NO CLUE giving advise on something he has NEVER done. Why Practical Machinist lets this creep continue to give dumb ass advice is way beyond belief.

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  8. #47
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    Edit:
    *redacted

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    You have miked(mic'ed) the original ways right? Then give those dimensions to the grind house so you duplicate the actual ways the rulon will slide on. You will have to wait on the hold downs until after you have match fit the slide square and aligned. Then fit the hold downs to the machine if it is horizontal but if it is vertical you will have to depth mike the hold down bolt on area step and either step grind the hold down or scrape it. On turcite or rulon I would give it zero clearance as it works better (slipperier) when it is tight. I know of Commerce Grinding Company - Welcome in Dallas, but there should be others who can do it. It could be done on a Blanchard grinder. Be sure to tell them they need to be straight. You could leave them .002 thicker so that will leave you some extra to scrape off as they tell you it is +- .002" when it is made. You also have to conside the thickness of the glue. Remember the thinner the bond line the better. Rulon uses a glue with .003" glass beads in it. Be sure to make 2 to 3 dry runs with no glue so you have a routine, so you have enough bolts, clamps, wright wrenches, etc. It's easy as long as you plan ahead. Rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    Here again is an example of someone with NO CLUE giving advise on something he has NEVER done. Why Practical Machinist lets this creep continue to give dumb ass advice is way beyond belief.
    So you say. But you spent easily two whole years proving yourself an unreliable source with a TON of childish tantrums and ad hominem attacks on dozens of folks. Back-channel back-stabbing as well as public.

    PM community surely tolerated THAT s**t long-enough, didn't they?

    "Everybody put, <<the master of the Finite Univere's target of the hour>> on Ignore!'

    Ever cross your mind they could put YOU on "ignore" at the same time, the skip the next dozen targets tantrums in one go as well?



    Now? Who still even pays attention when you degenerate into bully-bitch and whine-winding mode?

    Give a dumb ass some advice? Why not?

    Stick to what you DO know, King Richard.

    How's that for advice?

    Any skills or lack-of in ANY of multiple thousands of fields of endeavour amongst 7+ billion people you've never met, nor ever WILL meet, let alone observed, were never on that list, nor ever will be.


    ......and back under the "ignore" button you go....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    You have miked(mic'ed) the original ways right? Then give those dimensions to the grind house so you duplicate the actual ways the rulon will slide on. You will have to wait on the hold downs until after you have match fit the slide square and aligned. Then fit the hold downs to the machine if it is horizontal but if it is vertical you will have to depth mike the hold down bolt on area step and either step grind the hold down or scrape it. On turcite or rulon I would give it zero clearance as it works better (slipperier) when it is tight. I know of Commerce Grinding Company - Welcome in Dallas, but there should be others who can do it. It could be done on a Blanchard grinder. Be sure to tell them they need to be straight. You could leave them .002 thicker so that will leave you some extra to scrape off as they tell you it is +- .002" when it is made. You also have to conside the thickness of the glue. Remember the thinner the bond line the better. Rulon uses a glue with .003" glass beads in it. Be sure to make 2 to 3 dry runs with no glue so you have a routine, so you have enough bolts, clamps, wright wrenches, etc. It's easy as long as you plan ahead. Rich
    Ahh, now I see the true significance of the hold-downs,.. not merely a flat squared surface.

    On the clearance, I am a bit confused.. I noticed on your Kitimara post, the rear straps actually are turcite contact surfaces.. on my Fadal, it uses a gib/strap assembly behind the head. Am I misunderstanding something?

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    So you say. But you spent easily two whole years proving yourself an unreliable source with a TON of childish tantrums and ad hominem attacks on dozens of folks. Back-channel back-stabbing as well as public.

    PM community surely tolerated THAT s**t long-enough, didn't they?

    "Everybody put, <<the master of the Finite Univere's target of the hour>> on Ignore!'

    Ever cross your mind they could put YOU on "ignore" at the same time, the skip the next dozen targets tantrums in one go as well?



    Now? Who still even pays attention when you degenerate into bully-bitch and whine-winding mode?

    Give a dumb ass some advice? Why not?

    Stick to what you DO know, King Richard.

    How's that for advice?

    Any skills or lack-of in ANY of multiple thousands of fields of endeavour amongst 7+ billion people you've never met, nor ever WILL meet, let alone observed, were never on that list, nor ever will be.


    ......and back under the "ignore" button you go....
    Please do not destroy this thread...

    Most of us are here to better ourselves in some form or fashion.. this is childish behavior.

    -----

    I do not know Richard, other than what I have seen on this forum. I understand that he derives at least a portion of his income through his classes, thus, it is beneficial to have a presence where your target audience resides.

    However, I believe that he goes above and beyond what would be required of him in terms of helping others out on this forum... This in itself is commendable.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

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  14. #52
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    You want to duplicate the machine situation. Like I said if you had the means to remove the column and set it on the floor you could glue everything in place. If you can't you use the ground bars that are ground to the exact size and are straight. This is important so you get the ball screw in inline and squareness of the spindle to the Z travel. As I said you have to add the thickness of the glue plus a little extra because your going to have to scrape the Rulon / Turcite as it is not flat. Plus the scrape marks as you know hold the oil and you may have to tweak the spindle alignment. In the one photo on the Kitamera thread you will see I was indicating in a test bar in the spindle. I hope you have a test bar or at the minimum a piece of drill rod in a collet that you dialed in as close as possible.


    As far as the extra thick plates, I was thinking of that yesterday. I never did that on the Kity and you need not do that. I just thought it could save you a step or a procedure. Your going to have to put on the hold downs to lift the head so it gets a good bluing and alignment tests.

    You bought new bronze gibs? Or are going to use the old ones and put Rulon on them...?

    There is a few ways to do the gibs: You can glue them on a surface plate and then slide them in the head when its up on the column. You should scrape the gibs low in the middle if they are bronze or Rulon before inserting them in the machine, so you know they are not high in the middle and hit on each end.


    I get upset now and then, especially when someone writes nonsense. Clueless advice that could not only ruin what your doing, but future generations who read this forum. I have spoken to people all over the USA and Europe who wish such gibberish would be banned from this site. In the Austrian class 2 people told me they have pretty much stopped reading and contributing to this forum because of ONE Jerk. I know he loves when we talk about him as he is sitting in his underware (I figure) laughing away as he types here. Plus his other silly names he makes up. I figure they allow him as advertising revenue is arrived from how many people read or write in the forum. I know several people who quit the forum because of him. Professional Machine Rebuilders who were giving great advise and they could not stomach his BS. I will help here as long as I am alive and will challenge Jerks who are clueless. This is suppose to be a forum of professionals helping people, not clueless jerks guessing at what to do. I had a young man call me earlier this week and I told him how to Turcite his knee mill because he said he didn't want to ask in the forum because of the Jerk. I will gladly help anyone here, on the phone or in-person. Merry Christmas.

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  16. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    You want to duplicate the machine situation. Like I said if you had the means to remove the column and set it on the floor you could glue everything in place. If you can't you use the ground bars that are ground to the exact size and are straight. This is important so you get the ball screw in inline and squareness of the spindle to the Z travel. As I said you have to add the thickness of the glue plus a little extra because your going to have to scrape the Rulon / Turcite as it is not flat. Plus the scrape marks as you know hold the oil and you may have to tweak the spindle alignment.
    Yes sir, I see the beauty of your way replication technique. Pulling/replacing the column would be a major project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    In the one photo on the Kitamera thread you will see I was indicating in a test bar in the spindle. I hope you have a test bar or at the minimum a piece of drill rod in a collet that you dialed in as close as possible.
    Still have yet to invest in the proper tools/toolholders - but I do realize that alignment of this nature is not a place to pinch pennies... starting everything from scratch here. can conceptualize a process for dialing it in, will be fun... damn, cant wait to continue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    You bought new bronze gibs? Or are going to use the old ones and put Rulon on them...?
    I was planning to blue the rear way & scrape the original bronze gibs to mate at the correct angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    There is a few ways to do the gibs: You can glue them on a surface plate and then slide them in the head when its up on the column. You should scrape the gibs low in the middle if they are bronze or Rulon before inserting them in the machine, so you know they are not high in the middle and hit on each end.
    The steel gibs are going to have Rulon reapplied using a 24" x 16" x 3" thick surface plate and C-Clamps. I believe the recommended area of relief is 40% of the center? Then blue contact ways and scrape to mate.

    -------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    I get upset now and then, especially when someone writes nonsense.
    It comes with the territory of a life's worth of dedication & passion. Who wouldn't get upset over an intrusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    In the Austrian class 2 people told me they have pretty much stopped reading and contributing to this forum because of ONE Jerk. I know he loves when we talk about him as he is sitting in his underware (I figure) laughing away as he types here.
    I will never understand individuals who exhibit unprovoked malicious actions.. an incomprehensible, twisted way of life.

    --------------

    Thank you for your time Rich... One of these days I will be in a position to repay you.

    --- actually, I can. in a way. please send me your mailing address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    ......and back under the "ignore" button you go....
    Ooh! Ooh! Do me too! Please!

    Mud

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    Ooh! Ooh! Do me too! Please!

    Mud
    LOL! Not happening. We may disagree now and then, but you consistently add value.

    "That scraper guy" thoroughly trashes a forum with brags, lies, insults, and perpetual re-runs of tantrums, begs others to complain in out-of-band messages, backstabs potential competitors as well as critics, gets called to account by easily a hundred of the annoyed, finally mellows around June/July of 2018, but it was always somebody else's fault - it still is, and will always be.

    I don't recall you EVER trying to hide anything at all, lie, nor blame "the other guy", popular stance on some issue or otherwise.

    Adults will disagree. It's all in the record, and we carry our own sins as burdens heavy enough.

    Got a complaint? Fire away. No foul. No rancor. I can still learn from those.

    "Carry On!" I'm pleased to learn from whatever you choose to share, you - or any other "adult" on the wire.

    It really is not a "religion".

  19. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Adults will disagree. It's all in the record, and we carry our own sins as burdens heavy enough.

    Got a complaint? Fire away. No foul. No rancor. I can still learn from those.
    These statements are true... and certainly say something for the character of those that apply them to their lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    It really is not a "religion".
    Not so sure about this one.. shouldn't anything positive that one puts one's effort into be treated as a religion? And shouldn't those who contribute in a positive manner &/or seek to broaden their understanding be treated with respect & dignity? Regardless of any personality conflicts that may be present?

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by twmcree View Post
    Not so sure about this one.. shouldn't anything positive that one puts one's effort into be treated as a religion? And shouldn't those who contribute in a positive manner &/or seek to broaden their understanding be treated with respect & dignity? Regardless of any personality conflicts that may be present?
    It isn't about "personality conflicts". That's a lazy cop-out, just read the "funny papers"- PM's archives.

    First-off, easily three dozen among us that I KNOW of and perhaps a multiple of that figure worked HARD at getting "our hero" to pay attention to a challenging health issue.

    Credit his family more than his students and other PM members - I was hardly alone, just the nosiest.

    But it seemed to have finally been actioned and we returned to a higher percentage of useful contributions and far, far, fewer personal attacks on others.

    Mostly.

    When .. a(ny) person attempts to set himself up as a God of any branch of knowledge, disdaining, denigrating, even commercially damaging any and all other comers, even his own "student acolytes and disciples" by random turns?

    All that happens in a modern and mobile universe - and HAS happened - is that OTHER valued contributors WEARY of incessant bragging, public attacks, and private backstabbing and simply motor off.

    Naturally, it is never the fault of the petulant glory-seeker, there must be "enemies".

    If not, he'll generate as many as he sees a need for.

    That's MY doing? OK. Suppose for discussion it were so.

    Whom, then is in SECOND place and has done the more consistent DAMAGE to his own reputation and position?

    An open forum would have been useful for sharing and learning. As it WAS ... when "himself" was not there trying to hammer every other craftsman on-planet to his way or the highway, and Oh, BTW' kindly deposit praise as well as coin of the realm and STILL run the risk of being shot in the back as they departed FOR said highway?

    His scraping techniques work. They are on video - I bought mine, books and tools as well - and they are taught in class. Can't POSSIBLY avoid knowing that. Easily half the forum is taken up selling those and putting the attendees into their properly ranked places in MOFU's personal "status" Universe.

    So, too, do other methods work.

    Why can we not see and hear of those alternatives without risk of another strafing run or air strike?

    An accomplished Medical Doctor takes the time and makes the effort to improve foundry techniques to deliver a lovely new lightweight SE? "everyone put DGfoster on IGNORE" is Richard's response? Sorry. That is simply chickenshit behaviour.

    Richard, does, after all, HAVE his OWN damned website.

    Why monopolize a forum not even his own that was MEANT to be an open sharing?

    And BTW? PM is not even the only one where that is in-play. Same stunt is in place on other forums.

    Have a good answer for that mess?

    I'm still listening.

  21. #58
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    How many photo's does the make believe expert add to his posts? This is getting old. I thought he said he was putting me on ignore...LOL..what a joke. I suggest as I have before put him on ignore. If you stop talking to him he will go away.

    Twcree if your interested you can attend my Texas class in February on ME. I believe we talked about this before. It is down near Navasota about 30 minutes south of College Station. I plan on driving down a couple of days before and visiting the Bush memorial. Also lets communicate via email or on the phone. Then start a new thread when you start the project or after you've taken the class.
    Last edited by Richard King; 12-08-2018 at 08:28 PM.


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