Group buy of 4 arc-second (0.02mm/m) level vials - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Here's a summary of where we are with the group buy. I'll continue collecting interest through 17 February, as originally stated.

    sfriedberg 4
    TGTool 1
    Other Brother 2
    jmkasunich 2, could go 3
    MCritchley 2
    triumph406 1
    nc5a 2
    CamKong 2
    Cole2534 1? maybe?
    private 2
    private 2
    -------
    total 20, maybe 21, could go 22

    This puts us well over the quantity 10 pricing and within striking distance of the next price break at quantity 25. I will contact LD's US sales office on Monday and see what "price on request" for qty 25 gets us. I'll also see if I can't get these FOB the US sales office, taking trans-Atlantic shipping out of the cost.

    I should add that this would be an excellent time to have second thoughts. With this quantity, I will be paying my cash money for the order, and would rather not get stuck with vials people decided they really didn't want after all.

  2. #22
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    Any idea where the price point will end up? I think I would like two, possibly three, so I will have a spare, if the price is right.

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlquib View Post
    Any idea where the price point will end up?
    The published price at quantity 10 (which this buy will qualify for) is $22.59. The price at quantity 25 is not published, but quoted as "price on request", meaning I will have to contact their sales office on Monday to find out.

    I am not taking any markup on this group buy, but I will be adding shipping costs (both a share of what LD charges to deliver to me, and what UPS, USPS or your preferred carrier charges to deliver from me to you).

  4. #24
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    If you end up close to that number, I think I may want to bump my numbers up. My goal is to build two Kingsways, a large and the smaller version as well.

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlquib View Post
    If you end up close to that number, I think I may want to bump my numbers up.
    We are currently at 20, 21 if Cole2534 commits. So, as I wrote earlier, we are within striking distance of quantity 25.

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    You can add one to my order making it three total. I will even buy more to make the 25 if needed. That is a good deal and I am always repairing levels with broken vials. I have some levels tucked away in a drawer somewhere that need new vials, just need to find them, CRS problem. Daryl

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    Did you try to order them from MSC? I have had my best luck ordering parts through them, both Starrett and Mitutoyo parts.

    Charles
    No, but thanks for the tip Charles. I didn't even think about MSC.

  8. #28
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    If these fit a starret level we may take one.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    If these fit a starret level we may take one.
    Complete dimensions are in the page linked in the original post. I have no idea what will fit in a Starrett level, so you'll have to made that decision, but all the data are available.

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    I’ll swing in at the last minute and commit to 5 vials. I think that will put you squarely in the ‘25+’ pricing.
    I’m fine with contact via email (available through this forum) or PM if it is fixed. I’ll also try my best to follow this thread.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfriedberg View Post
    Here's a summary of where we are with the group buy. I'll continue collecting interest through 17 February, as originally stated.

    jmkasunich 2, could go 3
    I'm definitely at 3 now (making a Kingway and a stand-alone level). Depending on the final price I might go four.

    Quote Originally Posted by sfriedberg View Post
    I should add that this would be an excellent time to have second thoughts. With this quantity, I will be paying my cash money for the order, and would rather not get stuck with vials people decided they really didn't want after all.
    I'm committed, and am OK with paying (via paypal) in advance.

    John

  12. #32
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    Before you commit to 4 arc second vials, consider your end use. The stated resolution represents change in slope detected between graduations. For practical purposes, a 10 arc second vial may be easily interpolated to register 4 arc seconds simply by noting if the bubble falls a bit more or less between a pair of lines.

    Another point is: a 4 arc second vial has two or three the settling time as a 10 arc second vial. Not a stumbling block you might think until you figure the wait between each increment of adjustment. The greater sensitivity may double the time per unit of work yet result in little or no improvement in machine accuracy, alignment, performance, or longevity - IOW, the point of diminishing returns.

    A third point is: do the vial readings accurately represent the slope under test? You get what you pay for: some low cost levels I've used gave perplexing readings when cross-checked with an expensive name brand precision level. I've seen some where the level is more sensative toward one end of the vial than the other. I went through several import levels before I found one that at least gave uniform readings over the length of the vial if not the precise slope change per graduation. Enco was not happy.

    Final point. Machinists tend to squeeze the last iota of accuracy out of whatever tool they happen to be using. If you have a 0.0001" indicator on the Noga and need to dial in a hunk of cold roll from which you wish to make half dozen weld bushings, chances are, you'll dial it in to small tenths when when a slight wobble would be close enough. Same with over-sensitive levels.

    Ask yourself this: how many gig boring machines are in your future? Most folks get by just fine with a 10 arc second level. If you need finer readings, interpolate the vial graduations. With a little practice you can eyeball 5 or more sub-increments. That's 2 arc seconds if you're careful and control stray heat inputs, droopy concrete floors, etc..

  13. #33
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    Hmm, building a KingWay, that's a good idea. If it's not too late, I'd like two more for a total of 4. I can PayPal you in advance.

  14. #34
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    My phone only shows this...

    After procrastinating for a couple of years, I am finally organizing a group buy of ground spirit level vials. I'm looking specifically at ...

    Cannot see any link.

    Can someone please post the size of the vial?

    We have 2 Starret 98, one with broken vial.

    The vial size in my level is 2.5 in x 12mm per Starret parts description for the 98 but no dimensions for the 199.

    If it will fit then we can have a way more sensitive level than we need but fun experiment, count me in for 2.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    After further consideration you can bump mine to 5. Let us know how you would like the funds sent to you.

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post

    Can someone please post the size of the vial?

    We have 2 Starret 98, one with broken vial.

    The vial size in my level is 2.5 in x 12mm per Starret parts description for the 98 but no dimensions for the 199.

    If it will fit then we can have a way more sensitive level than we need but fun experiment, count me in for 2.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Proposed vial is 15mm dia. x 95mm or about .59" dia. x 3-3/4"

  17. #37
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    Well, I made my phone call to Level Development's Chicago office and all the evidence points to my inquiry being forwarded to the UK for a reply. For redundancy, I also used their website inquiry form, and that definitely vectored off to the UK, where it is now midnight. Therefore, I expect delay of a day or two in getting pricing for the 25+ break point.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post
    Before you commit to 4 arc second vials, consider your end use. The stated resolution represents change in slope detected between graduations. For practical purposes, a 10 arc second vial may be easily interpolated to register 4 arc seconds simply by noting if the bubble falls a bit more or less between a pair of lines.
    Definitely something to think about. In my case I already did. Its a "horses for courses" thing.

    I'm not doing this for a living, so my priorities are a bit different. Settling time might be a big deal for a guy on the clock, not quite as bad for me. But trying to interpolate 1/10th of a division is no fun at all. I was doing that last week. I currently have a 0.05mm/m Mahr level (works out to ~10 seconds per div or 0.0006" per foot). I was checking a new-to-me and un-calibrated Rahn 48" x 4" x 6" granite plate that I acquired for a song. It looks like it's grade AA, but you really do have to read the level to about 1 second or better to determine that. I ran three lines along the plate (front edge, back edge, and middle) and ran them left-to-right as well as right-to-left to see if they would match up. They do, pretty well. A pro certainly wouldn't do that, he'd call the friendly neighborhood granite guy and let them do it, with repeat-o-meter and planekator or autocollimator. But when you have a day job and putter in the shop in the evenings, the cost of the granite guy also includes the cost of taking a day off work. I get more satisfaction out of doing it myself on my own schedule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post
    A third point is: do the vial readings accurately represent the slope under test? You get what you pay for: some low cost levels I've used gave perplexing readings when cross-checked with an expensive name brand precision level. I've seen some where the level is more sensative toward one end of the vial than the other. I went through several import levels before I found one that at least gave uniform readings over the length of the vial if not the precise slope change per graduation. Enco was not happy.
    I fully intend to check the vials I'm getting. Although I bet they are pretty good. These aren't $22 levels, they are $22 vials. Just the glass vial, no mounts, no adjustments, no nuttin. I suspect that Level Developments has figured out how to make a very nice vial for $22. The rest is on me and will keep me out of the bars for a while.

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  20. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfriedberg View Post
    Well, I made my phone call to Level Development's Chicago office and all the evidence points to my inquiry being forwarded to the UK for a reply. For redundancy, I also used their website inquiry form, and that definitely vectored off to the UK, where it is now midnight. Therefore, I expect delay of a day or two in getting pricing for the 25+ break point.

    20:41 was the UK time of your post. But still after going-home time.

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  22. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTool View Post
    Proposed vial is 15mm dia. x 95mm or about .59" dia. x 3-3/4"
    Too large darn it! Count me out.

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