Help with proper spindle bearing fits, walker turner 20" Drill Press

Trevlaw · Mar 27, 2021

Hello all, I'm currently trying to get a newly acquired Walker Turner 20" drill press up and running again. The exterior of this press is in really great shape, unfortunately the spindle assembly was hiding some issues. I've started the process of replacing the spindle bearings, I have the quill removed and the spindle pressed out of the quill, destroying most of the bearings in the process.

I believe my drill press is of the earlier era before WT was bought by Delta, possibly 1944-1945? There is no split in the head casting like the later models I've seen. I think it is supposed to have a double row ball bearing for the lower spindle bearing, and a single row ball bearing for the upper. I removed a 6204zs bearing from the upper, so that seemed correct, but I pulled out two 7205 angular contact ball bearings from the lower spindle bearing location, not factory.

I don't really care about this having "factory" bearings, I would just like to fit it with something that works properly.

I've measured the bearing journals on the spindle and the bearing bores in the quill with various mics and bore gauges, measurements should be accurate to about .0002" or so.

Upper Spindle Bearing Journal .7887" at the top tapering evenly to .7892" at the bottom.
Lower Spindle Bearing Journal .9862" at the top tapering evenly to .9855" at the bottom.

Upper Bearing Quill Bore 1.8483" about .55" deep, round within a tenth or two.
Lower Bearing Quill Bore 2.0446"-2.046", diameter is tapered about .0005" bigger from bottom to top, bore is out of round by about .001" or so. Bored 1.45" deep.

Was looking at double row angular contact bearings to use as the lower bearing replacement. A 3205-2RS seems to be the closest fit.

3205-2RS ID - .9843"
OD - 2.0472"
Width .811"
This bearing would be about a .0015" press fit on to the spindle journal as well as about a .002" press fit into the quill bore. This seems pretty tight to me, it was definitely really tight coming apart. And from what I've been reading it seems that I would want an interference fit onto the spindle shaft, but more of a clearance fit into the quill bore, though I don't really understand what would keep the outer race from potentially spinning?

The Upper Bearing is similar,

6204-2RS ID - .7874"
OD - 1.8504"
width - .551"

About a .0015" press fit on to the spindle journal and about a .002" press into the quill bore.

I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable can advise on what the proper fits should be, currently I'm thinking something more like .0005" press fit on to the spindle journals and maybe .0001" or less press fit into the Quill bores?

I'm also having trouble finding any listings for a 3205-2RS bearing that specify what the ABEC rating or P class is. I see them listed as available in P5 classes in the Timken catalog, which I think would be about right for this application. Just a bit more towards the precision end and I think that would guarantee the ID and OD of the bearing within a few tenths of nominal, making my fitting process a bit easier.

I appreciate any and all help,
Thank you for your time

donie · Apr 3, 2021

I have one of these old drill presses, it would be a waste to put high class bearings in it, and you are right, those are way too high of press fits for that size of spindle bearing.
The problem with the entire line of WT machines is those bearings they used, it appears to change over to common bearing sizes the spindle and quill may need sleeves to adapt.
From what I have read, the bearings have metric ODs, and inch IDs, something like that.

thermite · Apr 3, 2021

Trevlaw said:
Hello all, I'm currently trying to get a newly acquired Walker Turner 20" drill press up and running again. The exterior of this press is in really great shape, unfortunately the spindle assembly was hiding some issues. I've started the process of replacing the spindle bearings, I have the quill removed and the spindle pressed out of the quill, destroying most of the bearings in the process.

I believe my drill press is of the earlier era before WT was bought by Delta, possibly 1944-1945? There is no split in the head casting like the later models I've seen. I think it is supposed to have a double row ball bearing for the lower spindle bearing, and a single row ball bearing for the upper. I removed a 6204zs bearing from the upper, so that seemed correct, but I pulled out two 7205 angular contact ball bearings from the lower spindle bearing location, not factory.

I don't really care about this having "factory" bearings, I would just like to fit it with something that works properly.

I've measured the bearing journals on the spindle and the bearing bores in the quill with various mics and bore gauges, measurements should be accurate to about .0002" or so.

Upper Spindle Bearing Journal .7887" at the top tapering evenly to .7892" at the bottom.
Lower Spindle Bearing Journal .9862" at the top tapering evenly to .9855" at the bottom.

Upper Bearing Quill Bore 1.8483" about .55" deep, round within a tenth or two.
Lower Bearing Quill Bore 2.0446"-2.046", diameter is tapered about .0005" bigger from bottom to top, bore is out of round by about .001" or so. Bored 1.45" deep.

Was looking at double row angular contact bearings to use as the lower bearing replacement. A 3205-2RS seems to be the closest fit.

3205-2RS ID - .9843"
OD - 2.0472"
Width .811"
This bearing would be about a .0015" press fit on to the spindle journal as well as about a .002" press fit into the quill bore. This seems pretty tight to me, it was definitely really tight coming apart. And from what I've been reading it seems that I would want an interference fit onto the spindle shaft, but more of a clearance fit into the quill bore, though I don't really understand what would keep the outer race from potentially spinning?

The Upper Bearing is similar,

6204-2RS ID - .7874"
OD - 1.8504"
width - .551"

About a .0015" press fit on to the spindle journal and about a .002" press into the quill bore.

I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable can advise on what the proper fits should be, currently I'm thinking something more like .0005" press fit on to the spindle journals and maybe .0001" or less press fit into the Quill bores?

I'm also having trouble finding any listings for a 3205-2RS bearing that specify what the ABEC rating or P class is. I see them listed as available in P5 classes in the Timken catalog, which I think would be about right for this application. Just a bit more towards the precision end and I think that would guarantee the ID and OD of the bearing within a few tenths of nominal, making my fitting process a bit easier.

I appreciate any and all help,
Thank you for your time

View attachment 317547 View attachment 317548

Mine is apparently from around 1942. Your one MIGHT actually be OLDER even than their previous owner. Before Delta Rockwell.

Walker-Turner quill-in-bore, nor head-to-column, nor table to column, nor column to base are NOT "split". They use different means for clamping or tightening.

Part of why they work as well and last as long as they do without damage.

AFAIK, the bearings... noisy when I bought it used, early 1970's - and STILL noisy - aren't at all critical. Broken ones that you now have ARE. But not uber-critical, even so.

All I did was clean-up the motor, tighten up the quill bore, and have given it a new belt every now and then.

But it's a drillpress, not a mill. And it is a LIGHT drillpress, even so.

"Technically".. it is a general-purpose DP, but... aimed at woodworking.

It isn't even meant for but infrequent drilling of metals.... unless fitted with the optional second-stage intermediate cone pulley and two belts, not one. To get the RPM down LOW .. so as to not burn-up drills when used in steel.

Regardless.. the hole is generated by the grind on the tip of the drill. Even with shiddy bearings.

All the rest of it does is transmit the twisting power... and attempt to keep the travel at right-angles to the work.

BFD.

It makes right-decent holes "medium sized" HAS run Silver & Demings to 3/4" in steel, HAS run hole saws in wood, sheet metal, and drywall to 7". 45-plus year average? Gets used more than any other powered machine in the shop...possible exception a basic bench-grinder.

I have other DP's for smaller (sensitive) & for larger.

I'm fond of it, but... if/as/when it takes a dump in my breakfast porridge? It won't get rebuilt. It will simply get replaced. "All at once", not bit-by-bit. Perhaps be parted-out.

No need to make a "career" out of it. You'd be ahead to cease messing and go find one that doesn't NEED messed with. A W-T is a good "value for money" DP because one does NOT spend a lot of time nor money on them. Not because one does.

Better DP's are what they say they are. Those ARE worth it.

Strands-Rosenfors / Arboga. Alzmettal. And not-only, just in the same "column drill" tribe. MASS tells the tale to a large degree. 4400 lbs Avoir and 7 HP for Heavy Hams Hans.

Radials are a whole 'nuther universe. Heavier yet as well. They HAVE to be.

METAL working thing.

donie · Apr 3, 2021

I would do a thorough internet search, there is a lot out there regarding the bearings, in WT machines
there is probably a lot of info on the woodworking forums regarding the bearing options, because they made woodworking machines with the same bearings.
The go to place for some older bearings is "Accurate Bearing"

Trevlaw · Apr 5, 2021

thermite said:
Mine is apparently from around 1942. Your one MIGHT actually be OLDER even than their previous owner. Before Delta Rockwell.

Walker-Turner quill-in-bore, nor head-to-column, nor table to column, nor column to base are NOT "split". They use different means for clamping or tightening.

Part of why they work as well and last as long as they do without damage.

AFAIK, the bearings... noisy when I bought it used, early 1970's - and STILL noisy - aren't at all critical. Broken ones that you now have ARE. But not uber-critical, even so.

All I did was clean-up the motor, tighten up the quill bore, and have given it a new belt every now and then.

But it's a drillpress, not a mill. And it is a LIGHT drillpress, even so.

"Technically".. it is a general-purpose DP, but... aimed at woodworking.

It isn't even meant for but infrequent drilling of metals.... unless fitted with the optional second-stage intermediate cone pulley and two belts, not one. To get the RPM down LOW .. so as to not burn-up drills when used in steel.

Regardless.. the hole is generated by the grind on the tip of the drill. Even with shiddy bearings.

All the rest of it does is transmit the twisting power... and attempt to keep the travel at right-angles to the work.

BFD.

It makes right-decent holes "medium sized" HAS run Silver & Demings to 3/4" in steel, HAS run hole saws in wood, sheet metal, and drywall to 7". 45-plus year average? Gets used more than any other powered machine in the shop...possible exception a basic bench-grinder.

I have other DP's for smaller (sensitive) & for larger.

I'm fond of it, but... if/as/when it takes a dump in my breakfast porridge? It won't get rebuilt. It will simply get replaced. "All at once", not bit-by-bit. Perhaps be parted-out.

No need to make a "career" out of it. You'd be ahead to cease messing and go find one that doesn't NEED messed with. A W-T is a good "value for money" DP because one does NOT spend a lot of time nor money on them. Not because one does.

Better DP's are what they say they are. Those ARE worth it.

Strands-Rosenfors / Arboga. Alzmettal. And not-only, just in the same "column drill" tribe. MASS tells the tale to a large degree. 4400 lbs Avoir and 7 HP for Heavy Hams Hans.

Radials are a whole 'nuther universe. Heavier yet as well. They HAVE to be.

METAL working thing.

Yeah I believe mine is from around the same era as yours,as it doesn't have the splits you've mentioned. It does have a huge brass sleeve inside the head that the quill rides in that is in very good condition, I couldn't feel any appreciable play in the quill at full extension, maybe a thou or two.

Here on the west coast industrial machinery is very hard to come by, this is the largest drill press I've seen for sale for months besides some seriously overpriced camelbacks. Though I think this will suit my needs well, it does have the intermediary pulley stack for somewhere around a 250rpm low speed, though I'll be making my own or adding a geared motor for some slower speeds.

I'll only have about $350 into the whole thing after I replace the bearings, plus a 15" X-Y Troyke table I got from work for free that is nearly new and the whole thing should blend in nicely with my other garage size machines, a 13" SB, Burke #4 horizontal, a Rivett 918 and eventually a Royersford or Buffalo Forge Camelback

Trevlaw · Apr 5, 2021

donie said:
I would do a thorough internet search, there is a lot out there regarding the bearings, in WT machines
there is probably a lot of info on the woodworking forums regarding the bearing options, because they made woodworking machines with the same bearings.
The go to place for some older bearings is "Accurate Bearing"

I've pretty much seen every thread there is on this DP. I think I've got it figured out though. Picking up a double row angular contact bearing and single row ball bearing for the lower and upper spindle bearings. Going to polish the journals on the spindle to about a .0004" press fit and the OD's in the quill for about a .0002" press fit. Bearing # 3205 A-2RS and 6204-2RS.

I emailed back and forth with whoever at the Walker Turner Serviced Machinery place that gets mentioned a lot. He's still got NOS spindles, quills, and supposedly the correct bearings. But after some back and forth about my bearing shaft and bore sizes and assuring him I know how to measure to a tenth or two, he just concluded that someone has obviously machined there own spindle shaft and quill and replaced the factory ones because my measurements were a thou or two off what they should be, and that I need to buy genuine ones to put it back together, presumably from him for ~$900. I don't think so...

thermite · Apr 5, 2021

Trevlaw said:
Yeah I believe mine is from around the same era as yours,as it doesn't have the splits you've mentioned. It does have a huge brass sleeve inside the head that the quill rides in that is in very good condition, I couldn't feel any appreciable play in the quill at full extension, maybe a thou or two.

Here on the west coast industrial machinery is very hard to come by, this is the largest drill press I've seen for sale for months besides some seriously overpriced camelbacks. Though I think this will suit my needs well, it does have the intermediary pulley stack for somewhere around a 250rpm low speed, though I'll be making my own or adding a geared motor for some slower speeds.

I'll only have about $350 into the whole thing after I replace the bearings, plus a 15" X-Y Troyke table I got from work for free that is nearly new and the whole thing should blend in nicely with my other garage size machines, a 13" SB, Burke #4 horizontal, a Rivett 918 and eventually a Royersford or Buffalo Forge Camelback

You've got a gem, then! Mine has no sleeve. I "tightened it up" with a coating. Which has held-up better than expected but still!

Yes, do find and fit bearings. It's worth it.

donie · Apr 7, 2021

It sounds like you are on the logical track, and the lesser press fits sound better "tenths"
The WT equipment was pretty good, but those bearings was a dumb idea.

thermite · Apr 7, 2021

thermite said:
You've got a gem, then! Mine has no sleeve. I "tightened it up" with a coating. Which has held-up better than expected but still!

Yes, do find and fit bearings. It's worth it.

"Loctite exists"' too. They did not have that good of a counterpart "back in the day", so add that to your research.

I prefer to not NEED it, most of us would. But it has solved a lot of problems for a lot of people.

Trevlaw · Apr 8, 2021

Well I got the quill bored out to the proper size on both ends and polished the spindle journals down. The lower bearing bore in the quill was bored way deeper than my bearing was thick, so I made a spacer than pressed in and is the proper diameter for the bearing to seat against and the bearing is now flush with the bottom of the quill.

Everything went together smoothly, though that return spring is a real PITA. I'm curious, does anyone know if the brass sleeve in the head is a factory thing? I'm starting to think more of this press has been modified than I thought, I think the column may have been swapped out at some point as well.

Either way, got it all assembled and running. The homemade belt reduction is a bit cheesy, but works for now. Man is this thing quiet, can barely tell that it's on. Even better, I put an indicator on the morse taper and am only seeing about .0015" of total runout, super stoked with that. There's a bit of flex if I push on the spindle sideways, but that's to be expected I think.

I've got a nice selection of MT drills, just need to get a few chuck arbors, a 2mt to 3mt adapter, a drift and I'll be off to the races

donie · Apr 8, 2021

Thanks for posting a photo, you probably have a much improved spindle.
I dont know about the sleeve, the WT drill press seem to have a good fit with the the quill in the head, better then many others.

Trevlaw · Apr 8, 2021

Yeah mine fits nice and tight, I can't feel any play at all even with it at full extension. Just haven't have heard of the brass sleeve before and making a new quill and pressing a sleeve that big into the head seems like way more work than it's worth for a drill press. Whoever made it did a mighty fine job though

thermite · Apr 8, 2021

Trevlaw said:
Everything went together smoothly, though that return spring is a real PITA.

I removed the whole magilla, Day One of my very minor refurb, early 1970's.

Not a believer in springs on quills.

Mine has been "tuned" to have just enough drag from the quill lock that the quill stay's where it put it. Safer to use that way.

I'm curious, does anyone know if the brass sleeve in the head is a factory thing? I'm starting to think more of this press has been modified than I thought, I think the column may have been swapped out at some point as well.

I have never once heard of a Brass or Bronze sleeved Walker-Turner before this one. Obviously, I had not seen ALL of them, because "here you are"!

I've got a nice selection of MT drills, just need to get a few chuck arbors, a 2mt to 3mt adapter, a drift and I'll be off to the races

My one is the "benchtop", so the #2 MT adaptor on it was removed to gain more daylight.

The two rings, one plain, one knurled, both with holes for hook-spanner "jack" the adaptor off. The "native nose back of it was in poor shape, but cleaned-up with files and steel-bar back abrasive cloth 'til it blued-up nicely @ JT # 33, which Hartford, Conn "old, original USA-made" Jacobs chuck, bought new, has been on it ever since.

Now "why" is mine SNUG, no shake, with no Brass/Bronze sleeve?

If you look straight at my fully-extended quill - no shake to it - you see two vertical lines that are the semi-circular grooves that PARTIALLY tightened spindle lock has worn into the quill several thousandths deep.

"BFD".

It was a 90 dollar drillpress, bought "really" for the uber-stout shop-fabbed steel table on massive Old Skewl Iron casters under it!

It was already around 30 years old, so ALL it got was a dead-motor clean-up & caps, new power cord plug, a general cleaning & touch up for the only paint it has had or needed, the new Jacobs chuck, a new nicely chromed table locking lever (off a Chrysler Crown Imperial tilt-wheel), and its first new Vee belt of .... 3? .. I think?

The bearing noise is just about right that I don't walk away and leave it running!

It still makes holes as well as it ever did.

Those two grooves in the quill will probably be deeper-yet by the time I croak!

Naturally I didn't want to say much about a Walker-Turner not NEEDING much.. until AFTER you fixed yours up really nicely!

YOUR one should now be good for the next two hundred years. Or more.

My one will need the sort of work you just did out around it's one hundred and twentieth birthday. It will probably do without, just as it has the last fifty years.

You'd have to know Walker-Turners?

They just don't eat much!

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