Ink spotting substitues for hand scraping???

imported_eric_h · Apr 29, 2010

I am practicing some scraping on a machine that I have but would like to know if there is a substitute for the Prussian Blue spotting ink that I could find in a local hobby or craft store. I am going to order some spotting ink, but until it comes in I was just wondering if there was something I could use that might work almost as good as this until it comes in.

Thanks in advance for the help.

E

Mike C. · Apr 29, 2010

Prussian blue oil based paint. Any hobby or craft store will have it.

bjorn toulouse · Apr 29, 2010

I use a Sharpie Magnum. It's a poster size marker.
The tip size is about the same as a Dykem brush, and they come in lots
of different colors

Rex

johnoder · Apr 29, 2010

as a Dykem brush

Topic starter is asking about transfer medium, not layout dye.

rke[pler · Apr 29, 2010

Dapra has transfer medium in red, blue and yellow. It's on the last page of the catalog here:

http://www.dapra.com/tech/dloads/Dapra-BiaxScrapers.pdf

(on edit: I forgot to mention that these are water soluble so a lot easier to cleanup than Prussian Blue)

Peter from Holland · Apr 29, 2010

I use oil paint fortransfering too
But there are differences
I get them from Royal Talens and their Prussian blue "Rembrant" works great
But their Prussian blue "Van Gogh" is no good at all
I think they are also for sale in the US

Peter from Holland

John Garner · Apr 29, 2010

A couple of substitutes that have worked for me in the proverbial pinch:

1. Universal Tinting Color from a paint store;

2. Stamp Pad Ink from an office supply store.

Both are on the thin side in comparison the the usually-used products, and today's version of both products are pigment-in-glycol mixtures, making them non-drying and water-washable.

Oil-based printers' ink could also be used, but printers' ink is a lot harder to track down unless you have a friend in the printing business.

Screwmachine · Apr 29, 2010

When I moved to Switzerland I couldn't find my Hi-spot anymore, so I went to the drugstore and ordered some Prussian Blue in powder form. Mixed with a short fiber grease, and it works great.

After that I ordered Dapra water based spotting fluid in red, orange, and blue. Great stuff- I finally got a couple of tubes of Hi-spot but only use it for scraping spindle bearings now.

If you mix your own, you need to take your time and really mix it well with a spatula on a clean surface.

Mcgyver · Apr 29, 2010

rke[pler said:
Dapra has transfer medium in red, blue and yellow. It's on the last page of the catalog here:

same idea as the canode isn't it? I've been wanting to try this as opposed the blue I've been using for years.....anyone have a source in Canada? US supplies (dapra) have minimum orders, MSC won't ship here :crazy:

....it would be great to know where to get it locally

thanks

Don UK · Apr 29, 2010

In the UK we have a proprietary product that had been arround for many years before I was an apprentice in the 1950's. Made especially for this purpose:-

http://www.toolbank.com/p/MISENGBLUE

Micrometer Blue.

I have no prior interest in this stockist. It was merely the first to come up on the search.

Don

WizardOfBoz · Apr 29, 2010

peterve said:
"Rembrant" works great
"Van Gogh" is no good at all

A comment on artistry? You are more of a fan of classicism than impressionism?

imported_eric_h · Apr 29, 2010

WOW, great info. and I appreciate it all. I just got some of the prussian blue artist paint...oil based. I think it should do the trick until the canode comes in.

Thanks a million,

E

MisterFixIt1952 · Jul 2, 2021

Here's an update note for anyone reading this post, looking for a non-mailorder source for spotting fluid/ink. You can buy Permatex Prussian Blue spotting fluid, over the counter, at most Napa auto parts stores. It is a non-drying fluid used for checking bearings and such. It is also relatively cheap at about $5 per tube.

I haven't personally used this product having run across it while looking for a local source myself. I just purchased a couple of tubes to use on my surface grinder restoration project so I plan on updating my impressions when I can. I also ordered a tube of red (water-based) printers ink, used for block printing, just to see the difference in performance. I'm not a frequent machine rebuilder. As a matter of fact, this is my first scraping project so I should have some good, unbiased feedback.

MisterFixIt1952

eKretz · Jul 2, 2021

I don't think automotive uses it for bearings, more likely for checking valve contact on the seats.

thermite · Jul 3, 2021

MisterFixIt1952 said:
You can buy Permatex Prussian Blue spotting fluid, over the counter, at most Napa auto parts stores. It is a non-drying fluid used for checking bearings and such. It is also relatively cheap at about $5 per tube.

It also KEEPS well.. easily over 40 years in that handy tube. Which is good. Because a tiny amount goes a looong way.. annnnd we don't actually use it very often..for "modern" engine work. Which can include checking flanges and anything else that needs to mate-up well - not just bearing shell fits.

And yes, it can be substitiuted for Dykem Hi-Spot, but still.. Having BOTH, I tend to prefer the Dykem. Or Stuart's Micrometer, mixed to suit me. Both have colours other than just blue. Cromwells will post Stuart's from the UK to USA.

Cost of any of them is trivial for infrequent use.

Or compared to the (time) value of the labour involved.

Even so, put your "most important money" into decent edge sustenance on your scraper(s), and trustworthy metrology.

With bad reference surfaces or poor tools, you will simply be working hard at losing a poorly planned argument .... with your own sweaty best-efforts.. but gone astray!

Hand scraping for fit is only about 5% about HOW to scrape anyway.

The other 95% is WHERE and by how MUCH.. so it comes good as to fit and EARLY in the process.

Not just "looks a pretty pattern" after too many goes and far more metal removal than need be to JF work well.

Orbital77 · Jul 3, 2021

imported_eric_h said:
I am practicing some scraping on a machine that I have but would like to know if there is a substitute for the Prussian Blue spotting ink that I could find in a local hobby or craft store. I am going to order some spotting ink, but until it comes in I was just wondering if there was something I could use that might work almost as good as this until it comes in.

Thanks in advance for the help.

E

Prussian blue oil color, add a bit of cooking oil if drying over 24 hours is a concern. In a pinch "rubber ink" for offset printing works just as well as anything else I am aware of.

texasgeartrain · Jul 3, 2021

eKretz said:
I don't think automotive uses it for bearings, more likely for checking valve contact on the seats.

That's right. I've not used it for bearing surfaces in engines. But used it in rebuilding cylinder heads. To expand on that, you have two machines or tool set ups. One grinds valves, the other grinds the seats that are pressed into the cylinder head. You could set your valve grinder to 30 degrees on one, and dress the stone for seats to 30 degrees for seats. But there is always a C hair variance between the two. Checking with the bluing will show the variance. Then you could slightly adjust one tool, usually the valve grinder, to match the other.

Not sure about car dealers or shops, but nearly all diesel shops just exchange the old heads these days, as a core to the manufacture, for new or reman. Cost, liability, warranty etc make more cost effective to exchange I guess. Every once in a while we might find something old or rare enough to rebuild in house though.

Back on topic. . . I was wondering if there was a reason people were not using Canode ? You can get it from American Rotary Tool, aka Artco:
Canode Blue Die Spotting Ink

Lol, after checking link, I see its tempory out of stock. But I bought a bottle of blue this year. I had a small clump/dry spot directly under cap. But when I cleared that, everything under it is fine. Also should note, they were out of yellow when I placed order, but they called me when it came in.

I like it because its easy to clean up. Just curious if people are having other issues, or doing something different.

JST · Jul 3, 2021

It dries up fast, on the reference surface, and then it is not as effective as a marking medium. And it does not thin out well naturally as you continue marking with it and do not renew it.

The use of sprays to "reliquify" it seem to cause smears unless you manage to hit the precise millisecond that it is at the right consistency after spraying.

Dykem never dries out, and it seems to thin out to a haze as you continue to mark using it without renewing. The rate is often almost perfectly in line with the slowly increasing precision wanted.

dcsipo · Jul 3, 2021

another alternative to canode or hi-spot

Charbonnel Aqua Wash Etching Inks | BLICK Art Materials

comes in many colors

texasgeartrain · Jul 3, 2021

JST said:
It dries up fast, on the reference surface, and then it is not as effective as a marking medium. And it does not thin out well naturally as you continue marking with it and do not renew it.

The use of sprays to "reliquify" it seem to cause smears unless you manage to hit the precise millisecond that it is at the right consistency after spraying.

Dykem never dries out, and it seems to thin out to a haze as you continue to mark using it without renewing. The rate is often almost perfectly in line with the slowly increasing precision wanted.

My experience in this is not all too much, could be I'm doing it wrong, or I'm an idiot

. But I think my common sense is pretty fair. I just don't feel like I have that problem at all, as far as it drying out.

I've been using a small size paint tray with maybe a 6" foam roller. I put a small portion in paint tray and kind of rub it around so its not all on one side of roller. Then I run roller back and forth across it. Once that's done, if I'm not using it much I can use it for a day or 2 without it drying to where its gets tachy.

I've run some on a straight edge, and the next day run the side of my palm across straight edge to check its clean of dirt, and to smooth the blue consistency, and my hand comes away blue like I just applied it.

Spots left on a surface a couple of days don't wipe off as easy as when first applied. But a shot of windex seems to solve that. In general though, I feel like its doing what I expect it to do.

Ink spotting substitues for hand scraping???

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