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Installation of Rulon 142 Wearstrip material

Richard King

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Location
Cottage Grove, MN 55016
Today I will be installing some Rulon 142 material on a 24" Summit lathe cross-slide and Saturday on a Mori Seiki lathe. I preferred not to write in the other thread as it has such a lousy title. I hope to make this a thread about how a pro installs Rulon and not guesses. I will include photo's. Hopefully all the talkers will stay away from this thread. After the Oklahoma class I stayed and am doing some partial rebuilds and maintenance work here. Rich
 
I'll start to post the info tomorrow (Sunday) as we are working today and I am to tired to start. A couple of things, the top of saddles of both machines were galled up about .010" and so was the bottom of the cross slide. They were using the machines that way and on the Summit the gib was out of adjustment. We are having these slides machined to accept .032" Rulon. We are only rebuilding the top and saddle up. We scraped the compounds and they are 90% done.

They use these machines to rebuild oil field, refinery and powerplant valves, so the will be turning the ID's of shafts, re-threading feed screws and turning new screws. They also have Bullard to bore inside the of the valve casings. More later. Rich

It is a hell of an operation as they are OEM remanufacturers.
 
We worked Saturday and are getting ready to go in today. Yesterday I scraped the Summit Saddle top after machining and scraped off the machining marks I tested it with a 30: B&S camel back and it was about 0015" high in the middle. I step scraped and blind scraped it using the new Charbinel Ink mixed with Windex. It worked quite well, better the Canode Yellow highlighter. For those who don't know step scraping is a way to control how much is removed in steps. I scrape off approx. .0003" per blind scrape which means I am not scraping blue spots, but I am scraping the entire area. As you can see in photos, I stepped it like this in areas about 2" long , 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1 . We also glued the Rulon on the bottom of the cross-slides of both machined CS's.

Also as you can see I mic'ed the flats to the area where the saddle bolts to bring them back to original height or parallelism. Under there that surface is original and all that was done to it was the saddle bolted to it.

I am going to leave it at that now as we have to get to work. It's 6 30 AM now.

Pic. on left is how the ways were scratched up before we had them machines. I am using .032" rulon.
 

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If you saw above it took about 12 scrapes to remove the machining marks. The cast iron was soft, so I had to sharpen my carbide blade to 10 deg. negative from the normal 5 deg neg. I used a short bristled paint brush to paint on the red and then wipe it off so there is a slight hue of the ink.
 

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Then I used the 30" camelback and my HKA-18 camelback to scrape the flats. I think I forgot to show the Kingway testing parallelism of the flats and doves. I will do that today. I still have to scrape the Mori. The cross-slides are longer then the saddle and when they are moved forward in operation the expose the top of saddle about 8". That is why I glued the Rulon to the bottom of Cross-slides. The are longer then the saddle top and we had to glue them on a surface plate. Got to stop now. Got to get to work. More later.

Pictures are bit out of order...lol...Oh and we sandblasted the cross-slide bottom so the epoxy would adhere better. If you zoom in you can see the epoxy squeezing out from under the CS. We put newspaper on plate and set weights on top. The epoxy is 6 hour set and 24 hour full cure. We will start to match fit it to saddle tops after we clean up the edges today. Still have to scrape doves and gibs.


The reason I am not using a HKA-36" camelback to do the saddle top in one bluing is I didn't bring one as I was only going to some light maintenance on JS machines. Luckily Nick (co-owner)had some SE's. Rich
 

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What’s your opinion on Summit lathes? When I was an apprentice in the late 1970’s the shop I worked in bought a 12 x 24.
They were some of the first machine tools brought into this country from China.
 
This machine they tell me was built in Brazil. I can check as I never looked. Like I said the iron is softer then the Mori. A laughable moment when I was going to blow air to clean the compound oil balls and looking under the casting the oil hole didn't go though. The ball oiler was pressed into a blind hole...lol

The machine had straight oil grooves and you guys know I preach straight grooves are Bad. The ways were galled up and I figure it's from those lousy ball Oilers in cross-slide. JS is a rebuild of valves, so the machine is run hard. A whole lot better then a Jet or the cheaper name brands.

I guess I could say it's a rebuilders dream come true...lol.
 
I'd like to say thank you to Rich he has put some hours in here and I've been occupied with other priorities and haven't been able to help if I had it my way I'd stay on the shop floor everyday and work on machines.

I was thinking about that Summit it is a 24x80 and we bought it around 2001 it has been ran like a dog ever since pretty much everyday so if we tossed it now it has more than paid for itself but other than the cross slide the rest of it is in pretty decent shape. We've had a couple of the older 19-4 summits I think they were called and they gave good service we still use one to weld shafts. I don't know the history of Summit but we also had a Summit lathe unlike any I'd ever seen that was Japanese kind of a cross between a Mori and Okuma it had to be one of their earliest imports. As Rich said better than most imports but not Mori or old American iron by no means.
 
The reason I ask was the one we had was made out of the softest iron you can imagine. I dropped an 8 inch four jaw chuck on the ways and put a divet about 1/4 inch deep in the ways. It also had a four way tool post like a turret lathe that no known tooling would fit.
 
Summit sold lathes. They didn't make them.

Some came from Asia, some from eastern Europe. Some from S.A.

Luck of the draw.
 
What’s your opinion on Summit lathes? When I was an apprentice in the late 1970’s the shop I worked in bought a 12 x 24.
They were some of the first machine tools brought into this country from China.

Wet headstock sump with open bearings. All the fines from gear wear do not settle out.
Changed out all the bearings except the spindle bearings
The brake is a composite assembly of flat spring steel and asbestos riveted together in a cheesy way. Small window of adjustment to get it just right.
Two wet clutches, forward and reverse. The reverse clutch does double duty for braking the spindle.
Better machines have a separate wet clutch for spindle braking.
Oil flow on the wet clutches had to be adjusted for proper cooling.
Clutch plates are prone to cracking and breaking up if over heated. Clutch should be adjusted for reasonably quick spool up else the plates may burn and crack. The machine was purchased new and part of the kit were spare clutch plates. Score!
The engagement dog is a bronze alloy. Oil flow is hit or miss and may result in high wear and difficult engagement. There is a line for oil but as the dog moves left and right it will be in and out of the path of oil. The end of the tube can be modified for coverage at both positions.
An insert/core can be machined and matched to the dog to renew proper engagement.
There is a long splined shaft in the headstock that is prone to snapping under heavy load. It was fully hardened. A spline with a soft core would have been better.
Had the ways reground and applied Rulon to the saddle. That took care of the soft ways high wear problem. Fabbed wipers for the ways.
Some electrical contactor-heater problems.
The halfnuts were prone to collecting metal chips and had to be cleaned. Air gun problem.
Coolant would enter the apron. Fixed that can't remember the details.
Summing up, a solid machine from a developing third world country (at the time) that was much better after the rebuild.
This was a 20" lathe or larger gap bed lathe built in China.
John
 
Thanks for the thread. It's good inspiration!

I'm planning on doing my 16" Hendey's saddle and cross-slide for the 2019 Texas class. It'll take some coordinating as I'll need to get it plained, Inlay some cast iron repair pieces, scrape and fit, and glue on rulon. I'm going to get all the machining and planer fixturing done out of class so we can focus on the "fun" parts.
 
Rich,

One thing i was wondering about during roughing is how to scrape straight down on each flat way? Are you measuring off the ground top?

It seems easy to tilt each way surface in relationship to the other.
Thanks for sharing.
 
The Summits top clearance surface was not parallel to the unworn straight oil grooves, we double checked the bottom of the saddle where the carriage bolts to and it was parallel to the unworn groves. The geometry on the Summit was squirelly. I am going to check squareness to bed to make sure it is concave. I won't do much to that if it is off. The bottom of saddle is worn concave and these machines the way J&S uses them if it faces concave say .003" in 12" we are good. The normal spec would be .0002" per 12" I think. Maybe .0004" I don't have my Sleshinger book with, so pooped. Hope to finish up tomorrow and drive home Thursday. Alex has a photo shoot to do Friday. I have more pictures, but no time to down load them now. Rich
 
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We finished the Mori and it is now back together, as I said I have photo's and will download them when I get back to MN. We have the Summit finished but when we ground the top of cross-slide the compound degree's got ground off and we are having a CNC company down the road milling new ones in and that won't be done until next week. We plan on installing the saddle tomorrow then driving home. Nick will complete the assembly as we have everything scraped. We worked until 8:30PM so we are exhausted. Hope to finish this thread this coming weekend from my easy chair. I forgot how tiring an emergency repair job can be. Thanks for the info everyone. Rich
 
I am now back in Minnesota after we finished up Wednesday around 12 noon and packed our tools, cleaned up the area and left around 3:30 PM from Nowata. We got home around 4:00 AM on Thursday. We did take a small detour to Hepler, KS to visit my longtime friend and student who has become quite the rebuilder Phil Perry who is known for his "Gold Plated lathe" He does High End rebuilds for the wealthy who want the best rebuild possible. He was working on a small bench mounted South Bend while we were their. Alex had a great time visiting with Phil who has a collection of Ham radio's, heats and runs his home with solar power. I had to plead with them after 2 hours...lol...we need to get on the road.

Today I bought my ticket to fly to Munich Germany about a month from today so I teach 2 weeks in Austria before coming back home on the 24th so I spend Thanksgiving back home this year. I'll write more about the European trip later. Rich


I will add a few more photo's and explain them.

Pic's L to R

Mori saddle on floor to be scraped after the Summit Saddle on side so we could scrape dovetail ways flat and parallel to each other. Done after we scraped the flats parallel. (2) Alex rolling the air out of glue after we applied the Rulon (3) After the flats dried, we cleaned them up and glued the positive side of dovetail in separate procedure. On the Mori the cross-slide ways were about 2" longer then the saddle/cross-slide ways. We sprayed the Sad. ways with release agent and glued the cross-slide in-place so the glue would squeeze out to make an exact copy of the angles. We cut a strip of bar-stock and used a dowel pin and C-Clamped the dove that stuck out of the saddle.

The Summits cross-slide was shorter the saddle 1" so we didn't need to use the pin and clamp on it. (4) Red Char ink we blued up the saddle and (5) first print of Rulon on red Char ink, we scraped to get a matched fit. Picture 4 shows we have the saddle on 3 points. The cast practice scraping bars. The bar was cockeyed, We had to off-set the bar as it is heavier on the right-side wing, In picture it is looking at it from back side and looks like the left wing.
 

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More Pictures of my make-shift sign plate to grind the gibs. Nick had a South Bend grinder made by Chevelier 1228 Surface grinder and 2 small magnetic chucks I set on the 1228 chuck, indicated in the cross slide gibs so I could grind off the wear and get the right spec. The Mori gib was to thick after we put .032 Rolon on the cross slide flats and positive side opposite the gib. I have done this before on shorter gibs using only 1 chuck on top. I like to use a small round shaft under the topside chuck so I can roll the shaft sideways to get the gib taper right. I used 5/16 shaft under this one. On the Summit Nick bought a new Gib so we fit it with-out grinding. We were in such a rush I didn't take as many pictures as I wanted to. . When one is out and about on an emergency job, you learn to make special devices to get the job done. As shown in the sign plate I improvised. That's it for now. Rich

Pic's L to R

Improvised sign plate I made to grind the 26" Mori Cross-slide gib. On the small chuck I found a 7/8" boring bar and some keystock and tool bits to raise small vise and I used a 5/16 shaft on longer chuck on right side. I corralled the chucks in place with lathe tool bits and holders. last pic is Alex adjusting Tail Stock clamp on Mori after it was assembled.
 

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I see in the picture (post 16) of the rulon being clamped into the dovetail that there is a releif between the 2 surfaces. What would be the best way to add a releif or cut it deeper?
I've seen a lot of dovetails that just have a sharp angle between the two surfaces, which makes it hard to scrape.
I suppose the feature could be plained in, but can it be cut by hand some way?
 
Im assuming you have your son involved which is a lovely thing.
Im third generation but ive only produced daughters. They're only young but Im assuming my little bit of knowledge will die with me and my grandfather, father and my tools will end up in the scrap pile.
 
M.B. We had the slides machined and the machinist cut in the bottom groove. Nick's friend Ed had a Acer Mill with a 50" table and barely was able to mill the slides with about 27". What was weird about it the Summit was 55 degree's and Nick had a company in Tulsa grind a 60 deg cutter to it and that worked slick. The Mori in that picture was 60 deg.'s adn one of the class students had a cutter with him, so Ed used it. I think that groove is factory cut. On the Summit After Ed cut the doves and flats with the reground cutter he used the borrowed 60 deg to cut the grove. He did a very professional job after a few consults with Nick and I.

I did discover a new way to cut the grove deeper and help cut out the glue that had squeezed down in the groove and dried. I took a .025" white plastic shim and stood it up vertically and rested the scraper blade against it on the bottom of slide when I had the slide sitting vertically. That technique only let the blade dig in on the bottom and side of carbide insert and not the top. I took a few pictures because I planned on sharing. :-)
 

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