Older blue Biax - what tool can donate motor/ motor parts?
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    Default Older blue Biax - what tool can donate motor/ motor parts?

    We've already identified that the green Biax can use parts/entire motor internals donated from Metabo jig saws. These are relatively easy to rebuild the motors.

    What about the older blue machines? My 7EL is working just fine, it's the model with the silver collar, but one day I know it's going to need parts. I've seen it said that these have Bosch internals - is that right? Later blue machines which don't have the silver collar but bolt up like the green ones, I've seen pictures of those where the motor was obviously not original, but looked perfectly well transplanted. Anyone know what tool the motors would be taken from? Are they Bosch internals too?

    Pete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    What about the older blue machines? My 7EL is working just fine, it's the model with the silver collar, but one day I know it's going to need parts.
    I thot that even the MAKER could no longer source suitable parts for the blue ones. Not new, still in current production, and of decent grade, anyway.

    Might be part of why they switched, yah?

    You could peddle your blue one before it starts to degrade to any of many folks who have only one or few "projects" and justify brand-new for your own ongoing "revenue" business.

    If-even you are at actual risk of wearing it out.

    You seem to do a good job - better each year, even - of avoiding machines tired enough to NEED much scraping?


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    I don't know about that Bill my last two lathes have plenty of scraping done on them and still some to come.

    It's inconceivable that they asked Bosch to produce a motor for their machine when there must have been a myriad of adaptable standard parts, just like the Metabo ones. What I'm asking is does anyone have a clue what parts they used. Old electrical tools turn up at boot sales and online auction all the time. Just recently I found an old Metabo jig saw that is a perfect donor for a Metabo powered Biax and I'd like to keep my eye out for similar Bosch parts - IF I knew what to look for. Also, my friend has just collected some blue and green models which could do with converting from 115v to 240v, so mostly the question is on his behalf.

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    It depends on how old the Blue one is. The early model BIAX scrapers motors were made by Biax Germany and they then started to buy Bosch Motors. I would suggest emailing my friend Ed. Dyjak as he knows more about Biax Scraper repair then BIAX Germany now knows. [email protected] Again if you need info on Biax Scrapers ask me directly as many have no clue what they are talking about.

    I just emailed Ed and told him about this thread. You can email him directly Peter.....I also warned him about ........you know who.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    I don't know about that Bill my last two lathes have plenty of scraping done on them and still some to come.

    It's inconceivable that they asked Bosch to produce a motor for their machine when there must have been a myriad of adaptable standard parts, just like the Metabo ones.
    Oh, they would have not only been "stock items", but also choices that had enough OEM use that they were expected to remain so and in the supply-chain for years.

    But "myriad" is an understatement. Fast evolving field, small motors, huge lots constantly being obsoleted by model changes - many as minor as circlip groove position, a few thou of shaft length or such - the model-changeover "remainders" then peddled cheaply - especially since cordless took-off. The production volumes are so high a "special" doesn't really cost anything measurable.

    You can DO this.. but until you retire and have nothing better to do, it is almost certainly cheaper and a better use of scarce time to just hire a repair from a specialist who has already done it... or sell yours and buy new.

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    Some portion of the older Biax seems to have been made by Scintilla, a Swiss company that makes power tools including jig saws. They seem to have used a Bosch motor, but it may have been the same Bosch motor used in other Scintilla built saws.

    I had a Renz power scraper at one time. The gear box on it was also made by Scintilla.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Some portion of the older Biax seems to have been made by Scintilla, a Swiss company that makes power tools including jig saws. They seem to have used a Bosch motor, but it may have been the same Bosch motor used in other Scintilla built saws.

    I had a Renz power scraper at one time. The gear box on it was also made by Scintilla.
    Scintilla is owned by Bosch, lo these many years. Check the nameplates. Fortunately, their stingy bean-counters haven't (yet) f**ked it up. Or mayhap there are more Swiss and fewer "Gastarbeiter" in the CH unit?

    From bitter experience, drills and hammer-drills especially, I won't touch a "Boche" hand power tool from any of their MANY other factories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Some portion of the older Biax seems to have been made by Scintilla, a Swiss company that makes power tools including jig saws. They seem to have used a Bosch motor, but it may have been the same Bosch motor used in other Scintilla built saws.

    I had a Renz power scraper at one time. The gear box on it was also made by Scintilla.
    I had a very good " Lesto " jig saw that had s " Scintilla " gear box-motor set up. It was great little saw that I had for ages.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    It depends on how old the Blue one is. The early model BIAX scrapers motors were made by Biax Germany and they then started to buy Bosch Motors. I would suggest emailing my friend Ed. Dyjak as he knows more about Biax Scraper repair then BIAX Germany now knows. [email protected] Again if you need info on Biax Scrapers ask me directly as many have no clue what they are talking about.

    I just emailed Ed and told him about this thread. You can email him directly Peter.....I also warned him about ........you know who.
    Thanks Rich I'm just doing a bit of my own research if I don't get anywhere I might resort to email.

    Pete.

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    Once a fellow and I were chatting about replacing the motor for his snout front blue 1/2 moon flaker and he said he removed the old motor and there was a 1/4 x 1/4" stud sticking it out of the end of the gear box. He attached his hand drill to the stud and it worked for him. It was variable speed too. I believe McMaster Carr has brushed that will fit it too...It's sold in sizes not brand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    Thanks Rich I'm just doing a bit of my own research if I don't get anywhere I might resort to email.

    Pete.
    Or "resort to.." metal"?

    You have high-grade machining capability under yer own roof - and know plenty of other folks who have even more of that.

    What happens if you take it apart and try to determine what sort of work would be required to enable mating-up the old works to the same motors used on the NEW ones? Or to some other common, but not "drop in" motor.

    Might "somebody" might pick that adapter/mod work up once proven-out and become a niche supplier to others who rebuild, too?

    Seems a better use of time than trying to jury-rig a scraper out of an ignorant - and far less suitable - sabre-saw, and THAT has already been done more than once.

    2CW

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    Following along as well...

    My old blue, chrome ring BIAX crapped out on me a while back, first time was a wire clasp screw that got loose and took a bite out of the winding on the motor. I was able to repair the winding and re-epoxy, worked well for a while longer. This time one of the nut inserts for holding the stator broke so im stuck....



    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Or "resort to.." metal"?

    What happens if you take it apart and try to determine what sort of work would be required to enable mating-up the old works to the same motors used on the NEW ones? Or to some other common, but not "drop in" motor.


    2CW
    Its a bit far down on the list, but there's a good chance I give this a shot...It's a shame having the meat and potatoes of the BIAX all good with no prime mover and body, so im planning on 3d printing/machining a new body to hold a motor and screw on to original business end.

    So the big first step would be finding a motor of suitable size, speed, and torque... That or just ripping apart this extra angle grinder I have and going to town.

    What do you guys think?

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    Bill,
    Lately you sound more and more like a consultant who gives advises outside his area of competence.

    One challenge with the motors of the newer Biax and at least some of the blue ones (I believe the ones coupled with a screw ring are in this category) is that the end of the motor shaft is machined/ground into an helical gear. Several other tools have a similar arrangement, but the helix angle seems to be different.
    Grafting the end of the shaft or grinding an identical gear into the shaft of another motor are indeed some of the options, but are much more involved than sourcing an already compatible motor.

    Paolo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    ..Several other tools have a similar arrangement, but the helix angle seems to be different....
    .... and not-only. Since forever-ago, and from one application to another.

    Scary part is that they nearly always get produced in quantities greater than ONE as well. Go figure.



    To those among us who have serviced myriad small motors and even now and then designed them into new products?

    "That's a feature, not a bug". And why it is common for motor-makers to offer many shaft options per-each family of stock rotor & c.

    Not hard to swap them, even "in the field", small as they are. Ignorant press fit, mostly.

    Just one of those small "area of competence" things yah could pick up if ever you get bored with ....scraping?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    Bill,
    Lately you sound more and more like a consultant who gives advises outside his area of competence.

    One challenge with the motors of the newer Biax and at least some of the blue ones (I believe the ones coupled with a screw ring are in this category) is that the end of the motor shaft is machined/ground into an helical gear. Several other tools have a similar arrangement, but the helix angle seems to be different.
    Grafting the end of the shaft or grinding an identical gear into the shaft of another motor are indeed some of the options, but are much more involved than sourcing an already compatible motor.

    Paolo
    This is the crux of the matter, the Biax uses a 6 tooth helical gear of 6mm diameter. I've yet to find ANY tool that uses similar. I have had one Scintilla Bosch jigsaw apart (Model 1581) and it uses a 4 tooth 9mm gear. I'm convinced that the donor machine is out there it's just a matter of finding it.

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    It's all fine and good to repair old tools, but sometimes it's best just to replace. Or use a pro like Ed Dyjak to fix. A happy customer here of Ed's who'd rather be scraping and getting the job done than futzing with an ancient scraper.

    L7

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    Nothing wrong with that if it works for an individual but how many people here have been grateful to that someone who has found a way to rejuvenate obsolete equipment and shared those ideas? I mean, isn't that what the rebuilding forum is all about - sharing ideas and info so that others might gain knowledge and inspiration from it in order to keep old equipment going?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    Nothing wrong with that if it works for an individual but how many people here have been grateful to that someone who has found a way to rejuvenate obsolete equipment and shared those ideas? I mean, isn't that what the rebuilding forum is all about - sharing ideas and info so that others might gain knowledge and inspiration from it in order to keep old equipment going?
    Amen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    Nothing wrong with that if it works for an individual but how many people here have been grateful to that someone who has found a way to rejuvenate obsolete equipment and shared those ideas? I mean, isn't that what the rebuilding forum is all about - sharing ideas and info so that others might gain knowledge and inspiration from it in order to keep old equipment going?
    By all means GO FOR IT!

    An "uncommon" configuration is not the same as "non-existent".


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    My point is not to discourage or demean anyone. Far from it. I'm just trying to suggest an analysis of risk vs benefit of investing hours amd capitol trying to repair an older scraper vs using the same effort to upgrade one's tooling to a newer, lighter, perhaps variable speed, better performing Biax. Or other machine tool. Sometimes it make sense to repair, sometimes we (including me!) get caught in a trap of repair the old amd worn out when we should cut our losses.

    Probably should of phrased the idea better the first time.



    Lucky7

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