Older blue Biax - what tool can donate motor/ motor parts? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky7 View Post
    My point is not to discourage or demean anyone. Far from it. I'm just trying to suggest an analysis of risk vs benefit of investing hours amd capitol trying to repair an older scraper vs using the same effort to upgrade one's tooling to a newer, lighter, perhaps variable speed, better performing Biax. Or other machine tool. Sometimes it make sense to repair, sometimes we (including me!) get caught in a trap of repair the old amd worn out when we should cut our losses.

    Probably should of phrased the idea better the first time.
    Peter may yet add value on this if he finds a solution.

    But realistically - by the time the MOTOR is worn so badly as to need outright replacement?

    Just how much useful life can reasonably be expected to still be there in the REST of the mechanism it has been powering?

  2. #22
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    I fixed a green BL10 last year by fitting a motor from a ST EP 565 jigsaw. The unit was pristine other than a completely worn out commutator. Someone had used it a lot but taken great care of it.

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  4. #23
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    This thread got me inspired to take another look at my 7EL, figured I share some photos for the viewers at home...


    img_2683.jpgimg_2685.jpgimg_2686.jpgimg_2688.jpg

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    What’s wrong with it?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    What’s wrong with it?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    In the case of mine, the extrusion inside the lower body that encapsulates the insert nut that holds the stator in, broke off and took a ride inside the commutator area,chewing up the winding insulation.

  8. #26
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    Any chance of pressing the shaft out of the doner armature and pressing the original one back in ?

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewmawson View Post
    Any chance of pressing the shaft out of the doner armature and pressing the original one back in ?
    The old shaft is "sacred", the laminations and windings 100% expendable.

    Safer to take precise measurements of its positioning (end stick-out), then mill/saw longitudinally to weaken it to near-as-dammit nothing left as to grip on the shaft, first.

    Lathe-turning the old one off is messier and riskier. Interrupted cut, dis-similar materials, lots of varying stresses, poor support of a small-diameter shaft etc.

    Pressing the preserved shaft into a new donor is lower-risk and easier if it is still DN straight and undamaged.

    "Worth it"? On "feel-good" points, perhaps.

    If you have to answer to a bean-counter whilst brand-new goods are still to be had? Not so much.

  10. #28
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    @capocoreyollo thanks for posting those. I am using a borrowed machine and my biggest fear is that it will break down while in my posession. I think I may need to do some careful looking to see if there is any preventative maintenance I can do (other than the obvious of keeping it lubricated).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkopel View Post
    ..I am using a borrowed machine and my biggest fear is that it will break down while in my posession.
    Y'know? We have leasing and rental firms that cover everything from small tools to pavement saws, construction equipment, trucks, trailers, RVs, motorcars to the largest airliners.

    There's probably a market for leased BIAX, too, just as there is for larger demolition hammers?



    Lots of powered-scrapers are used only part of the year, and for projects that might be years apart, yah?

    Could work especially well if it had reputable factory backing for checking condition and support for repairs before sending out on the next lease.

    Alex, Rich? "Business Opportunity" there, maybe?

    Easier on the belly-muscles to lease them than USE them, and who knows more about the tool?

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by capocoreyollo View Post
    This thread got me inspired to take another look at my 7EL, figured I share some photos for the viewers at home...


    img_2683.jpgimg_2685.jpgimg_2686.jpgimg_2688.jpg
    Nooooooooo....! Dammit. Is that the one I got you a few years ago? Crap. If you can find a suitable donor, I can machine off and transplant the driving end for you. Or maybe make a new adapting gear for one? Let me know if you want any help, C.

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  14. #31
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    What made it rough is that plastic fan would brake trying to replace the bearing. Many time I would just re-grease the bearing, less is better. say 5 or 10 % of Mobil 32 red grease. But now with 3D printing you could probably make one. I would also expect making a new gear or pinion would be expensive. Time is money, so buy a few old ones, or talk to Ed Dyjak as he told me he has several old ones he parted out. Or Buy a good used one on Ebay or a new one. I stayed away from the post for a bit as some of what was written was guesses IMHO. Last month one of my CA Students bought a nice old BL-10 (blue) on Ebay for $400.00 with a pack of blades worth $400.00. So if your patient you can still find deals.

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    As other suggest above, I've wondered about machining an adapter plate and intermediate shaft to use a more modern and serviceable motor on the old blue heads. You could cut the gear off of the old armature and sleeve it onto a new motor.

    My old blue Biax is still running well, but my hope is to just save up enough to buy a green Biax one day. and bench the blue one as a spare. If it dies, I might play with making a franken-biax, but I don't see it being a profitable venture. IMO power scrapers pay for themselves quickly in the time and pain they save you, but I also hope and dream that if there's enough demand, Dapra and potentially other companies could produce new power scrapers at a more competitive price.

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  18. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    .. I also hope and dream that if there's enough demand, Dapra and potentially other companies could produce new power scrapers at a more competitive price.
    I'd bet they could get a HIGHER price if they made the tool "modular" so motors were less a worry, going forward, ever-again.

    Now, I do NOT mean designed as power-drill attachments. Nearly every one of those gadgets I have ever owned - the most-recent a sheet-metal "nibbler" - is a disaster walking compared to a properly designed "integrated" tool.

    I mean, instead, the FACTORY building-in an intermediate coupler section so they could thereafter use any of many stock motors in a "built in" manner EG: - without need of an integral gear formed right onto the shaft. Even a spline could be OK.

  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Oh, they would have not only been "stock items", but also choices that had enough OEM use that they were expected to remain so and in the supply-chain for years.

    But "myriad" is an understatement. Fast evolving field, small motors, huge lots constantly being obsoleted by model changes - many as minor as circlip groove position, a few thou of shaft length or such - the model-changeover "remainders" then peddled cheaply - especially since cordless took-off. The production volumes are so high a "special" doesn't really cost anything measurable.

    You can DO this.. but until you retire and have nothing better to do, it is almost certainly cheaper and a better use of scarce time to just hire a repair from a specialist who has already done it... or sell yours and buy new.
    Im sure pete has a good few thousand burning a hole in his pocket to buy a new biax!!
    Mending a old CHEAP biax and doing good work with it is a pleasure in itself!

    Why come to the rebuilding forum and suggest buying new machines and giving up on rebuilding, maybe forty years ago there were good machines available but these days in England 99% of remaining stocks are knackered

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  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pressbrake1 View Post
    Im sure pete has a good few thousand burning a hole in his pocket to buy a new biax!!
    Mending a old CHEAP biax and doing good work with it is a pleasure in itself!

    Why come to the rebuilding forum and suggest buying new machines and giving up on rebuilding, maybe forty years ago there were good machines available but these days in England 99% of remaining stocks are knackered
    "Time lost" is why. Can't save it in banks nor hide it under a rock. Can't buy it new. Can't repair it. Can't rebuild it, nor hire it rebuilt. Can't buy time at any price and hoard it.

    Spend too much TIME on repair of a small and specialized power-tool that can be bought, new or used? That "may" be rebuildable by the specialist mentioned?

    There's less time left to USE that tool on restoration of a machine-tool one cannot buy new, nor find in as-new condition.

    Not as if this was a huge issue, actually.

    Biax tools are not a mystery. They are known to last a very, very, long time. By the time a person has worn one out, it has paid for itself several times over.

    A new one will do the same, then still have good value used for the next Pilgrim's project(s).

  22. #36
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    You CAN bank the warm glow of fixing something.

    I spend my time fixing things just for the fun of it. Today it's been a chicken egg incubator for a friend. Yesterday it was a wood chipper for 5" round logs for another friend. This evening it's hopefully going to be the Siemens "L97" threading cycle on my CNC lathe.

    There is a lot of satisfaction to be gained by fixing things even if strictly spreaking there is no economic case for it.

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