Peening the Underside of a Milling Machine Table. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    I've peened two Bridgeport tables
    And straightened many a propeller shaft with peening i find it to be a slow and precise process

    It sounds like you're table has alot of bow to it it might not be feasible to get that much movement do you have any photos of it?

    As far as where to peen on a mill table it's going to be more in the middle tapering to less at the ends

    Ps I wouldn't use a torch on ci the haz would be at high risk of cracking

    Pps in another thread about this it was said that most of the bow could be removed by cutting away the damaged material on the underside of the T slots.
    I did this and it moved about .002 in 42 inches.
    Not what I was hoping for but still worth it just from the ease of use
    20151113_111050.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    Careful with your words there, I have been around the block many times in my past dealing with stuff like this. Far as I'm concern, you can go back from where you came from and join the ranks with termite!
    I don't give a shix how many times you've been around the block or the reason thereoff - I'm not inclined that way . You are still not an expert at this sort of thing while I AM. I told you it can end up like a propeller because I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPENING MANY TIMES as other stresses are being relieved. I agreed with you when YOU SAID " I'm no expert at this but have seen it done, especially with engine heads." because that is the truth - you are no expert. You are just another anonymous character ranting on a public forum. Don't try censor people, don't tell people where they should go - I have the same right to be here as you do, asshole ! Peening works best for things which will be supported after the "repair". NOT THE CASE HERE! There isn't enough "meat" in that table for that.

    Do not give advise that can cause irreversible damage. Respect the other person's property like it is yours. If you suggest shixx on public forums expect others to criticize you. I have no connection with the bloke you call "Termite" ! I am sorry for whatever he did to you but well...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexD View Post
    Maybe Orbital77 can list the items that were "Not the best Materials and Workmanship" and "Not Accurate from New" that he saw when he walked past a Beaver Mill in Africa.
    I think that is a good idea and could make for an interesting discussion. I think we could start with a couple of different products ( cars, buses ? ) and eventually drift to Beaver mills. Just to gain perspective. Of course, other might think differently but on my money I only care about what I think.

    By the ( if I can ask ) are Beaver mills still being made and how much do they cost ? I wonder if the factory might not be able to help you somehow, maybe they do have a fix.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbital77 View Post
    I think that is a good idea and could make for an interesting discussion. I think we could start with a couple of different products ( cars, buses ? ) and eventually drift to Beaver mills. Just to gain perspective. Of course, other might think differently but on my money I only care about what I think.

    By the ( if I can ask ) are Beaver mills still being made and how much do they cost ? I wonder if the factory might not be able to help you somehow, maybe they do have a fix.
    Fix for a mill isn't always rocket science.

    Another member - whom I know and have cause to trust - was parting-out an ANCIENT B&S Universal. Table looked astonishingly pristine in the photos.

    Parting out B&S #1 Mill - Step pulley, OC gear box, Universal

    I bought it.. Lo and be HELLED.. it IS like-new! Rust on CI is no big deal.

    Looks as if it spent a hundred years with a big, stiff fixture plate on top of it, because the bugger doesn't even have tool f***k marks and only one TINY rough spot on 2 inches at one far end on the edge to a tee slot. Even the tee slots are otherwise like new.

    Now .. why bring that up?

    A mill is just a mill.

    It doesn't always give a s**t if the long-axis table is the one it left the factory with, does it?

    Re-engineering the mount to the Y axis isn't actually rocket science.
    Somebody made the OEM one. It can be milled from solid and/or a weldment, not a casting.

    Just though I'd put that option on the table...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Fix for a mill isn't always rocket science.

    Another member - whom I know and have cause to trust - was parting-out an ANCIENT B&S Universal. Table looked astonishingly pristine in the photos.

    I bought it.. Lo and be HELLED.. it IS like-new! Rust on CI is no big deal.

    Looks as if it spent a hundred years with a big, stiff fixture plate on top of it, because the bugger doesn't even have tool f***k marks and only one TINY rough spot on 2 inches at one far end on the edge to a tee slot. Even the tee slots are otherwise like new.

    Now .. why bring that up?

    A mill is just a mill.

    It doesn't always give a s**t if the long-axis table is the one it left the factory with, does it?

    Re-engineering the mount to the Y axis isn't actually rocket science.
    Somebody made the OEM one. It can be milled from solid and/or a weldment, not a casting.

    Just though I'd put that option on the table...
    Of course.

    Shorten the table or, add height and length to cross or even make a new cross or both. No big deal, no rocket science. There are a few more fixes possible but they are risky. Good for the communist factories of my youth as they could take the loss of a couple of machines. Because they belonged to everybody and to nobody.

    It is frightening how narrow the knee is on some of those B/port like machines. Where was the mind of the designer ?? Has he ever heard of using a dividing head ? Did he think the ends of the table will only support coffee cups ?

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    In my young days I worked with a very reputable machine tool re builder and yes the ubiquitous B'port style knee mill table ends droop. That said, they also cause the saddle top shears to wear convex. Getting a table straight again is a short lived proposition if the saddle is not scraped in to truth as part of the process.

    Having said that a droopy table is hardly noticed if your work is confined to a vise mounted on the table. Generally only an issue with gang vises (and no compensation) or long work strapped down to the table.

    As an aside Peening was very popular with the South El Monte "Rattle Can" re-builders (So Cal in the 1970's) It was a quick way to make a very dodgy ex aerospace machine look good, just long enough to get it out the door and the check cashed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclotronguy View Post
    Generally only an issue with gang vises (and no compensation) or long work strapped down to the table.
    Well f**k's sake. There it is, right there!

    If a hobby guy has a mill with table droop, all he REALLY has to do it pretend he is back on the clock!

    Mill b'long company, not mill hand, mill hand compensate.

    Fat chance you'd go on strike, refuse to get the work done, go hungry until the company tore the mill to flinders and rebuilt it.

    You didn't own it. You just "learned that machine" (any "company" machine), compensated... and earned the damned paycheck.

    Nothing special. Every hand that ever GOT a paycheck had to do it. Some just had to do it more than others.

    BFD.

    Run what you got!

  9. #28
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    I would suggest that, before doing anything with the bottom of the table, you address the top, especially if you think about milling, grinding, or planing it, since that operation would remove more curvature than you'd expect. I don't remember where I read this recommendation, perhaps in the Connelly book, but it is advisable to set the cutter to cut for at most half of the depth of material that has to be removed from the middle, since the cut will remove a significant portion of the stressed material and the table will (partially spring back.
    As suggested by Hbjj, touching up the T-slots (both the underside and the vertical walls) is a good idea, since generally most of the stress in the table is caused by over-tightening the T-nuts.

    Archie Cheda discussed extensively about peening stresses on platen/tables on his thread on restoring Tuckahoe Lucas HBM. He ran into the problem of scraping flat the ways of the platen before planing the top. He had to redo the bottom again:
    Lucas Horizontal Boring Mill going to Tuckahoe . . .

    Unfortunately, the pictures are gone.

    Cyclotronguy makes a very good point: as with anything in rebuilding, if you address one element, you have to address the mating element as well, otherwise they no longer fit together correctly and you do more damage than good.

    Paolo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    He ran into the problem of scraping flat the ways of the platen before planing the top. He had to redo the bottom again:
    That has come up in very nearly ALL observations as to restoring mill tables.

    Top, bottom, then again, each as "stuff moves".

    If it is expected and "in the plan" at least it gets close to stable in just the two cycles.

    But not often LESS than that, either!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbital77 View Post
    Yes, you are no expert at this.
    Wouldn't you be the former banned member AlexO. You have been reported. Hint. No one does 90 posts in the partial month they join.
    I'll even tell you how I pinned you. You (Alex & Orbital) both use the same racist phrase "Afreeka".
    Good luck with staying a member.

    Phil.

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  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbital77 View Post
    I don't give a shix how many times you've been around the block or the reason thereoff - I'm not inclined that way . You are still not an expert at this sort of thing while I AM. I told you it can end up like a propeller because I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPENING MANY TIMES as other stresses are being relieved. I agreed with you when YOU SAID " I'm no expert at this but have seen it done, especially with engine heads." because that is the truth - you are no expert. You are just another anonymous character ranting on a public forum. Don't try censor people, don't tell people where they should go - I have the same right to be here as you do, asshole ! Peening works best for things which will be supported after the "repair". NOT THE CASE HERE! There isn't enough "meat" in that table for that.

    Do not give advise that can cause irreversible damage. Respect the other person's property like it is yours. If you suggest shixx on public forums expect others to criticize you. I have no connection with the bloke you call "Termite" ! I am sorry for whatever he did to you but well...
    I AM AN EXPERT to you!!!! YOU ARE NOT!!!!!! Buzz off!!!! and I hope you break off your mill table in the process!!!!!

  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    I AM AN EXPERT to you!!!! YOU ARE NOT!!!!!! Buzz off!!!! and I hope you break off your mill table in the process!!!!!
    Boys, boys! Is that anyway for gentlemen to comport themselves? Choose your words carefully. Events may transpire where you have to eat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post
    Boys, boys! Is that anyway for gentlemen to comport themselves? Choose your words carefully. Events may transpire where you have to eat them.
    Yah, really .. or they eat YOU?

    If y'all weren't aware of it, our moderators have powers like Judges, JP's or Sea Captains.

    Worse, even! Science Fiction authors!!!

    They can even perform virtual "marriages". Species and gender immaterial.

    Be careful whom you wish for!

    DAMHIKT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post

    Archie Cheda discussed extensively about peening stresses on platen/tables on his thread on restoring Tuckahoe Lucas HBM. He ran into the problem of scraping flat the ways of the platen before planing the top. He had to redo the bottom again:
    Lucas Horizontal Boring Mill going to Tuckahoe . . .


    Paolo
    The Archie Cheda posts where he documents his theory and findings on this subject are very interesting, thanks for posting the link Paolo.

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    Peening on tables or all sorts of thing moves stuff for sure.
    Does it stay that way in the long term or is this nice and fuzzy and is great today when I check it?
    Worked a bit in a shop that would peen HSS endmills/drills to straight. Got pretty good at it but always thought it so wrong.
    Bob

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    What happened to Orbital77 or AlexO or whatever he calls himself, he had 90 posts in a few weeks, now nothing, I hope the Aussies haven't upset him, again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LexD View Post
    What happened to Orbital77 or AlexO or whatever he calls himself, he had 90 posts in a few weeks, now nothing, I hope the Aussies haven't upset him, again.

    Truebor hasn't been as talkative lately as he used to be either. Maybe they're all off camping together.

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  22. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTool View Post
    Truebor hasn't been as talkative lately as he used to be either. Maybe they're all off camping together.
    I am not camping - I am only badly delayed with work. And this subforum seems to be amateurs with hobbies. That does not interest me. If you're in need of technical advice you can send me a private message and I will help if I can.

    In any case peening the underside of unsupported table is a nonsense - it will not work.
    Have a good day !

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    I’m not in favour of peening the bottom of a table either, but to be clear it was a professional with decades of machine rebuilding experience who taught me that technique.

    L7

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueBor View Post
    In any case peening the underside of unsupported table is a nonsense - it will not work.
    Have a good day !
    Would you care to explain your thoughts regarding why "it will not work"? Even if partial correction is gained by peening surely it is worthwhile.


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