What's new
What's new

Planing and Scraping a 36" KING-WAY Camel-Back Straight Edge

Here is another one showing Jan and another famous You Tuber who I believe is also a PM member.
Stefan Gotteswinter showing at the beginning and at the end where he discusses SE's. You made need to click on the black link a few times...

Scraping class 2017 in Denmark - YouTube

You can also go to You Tube and Type "Richard King Scraping" and see several shows on my classes.

Enjoy :-)
 
I have several sizes in stock, if you need a Straight-edge PM me. I also sell them on Ebay. My Ebay name is King Scraping. I offer 5 to 20% discounts for forum members depending on length.
 
I just sold a HKA-24 today on an Ebay sale where I sell them. They are real popular when scraping lathe cross-slide dovetails as are the smaller HKA-18 and HKA-12. Here is one that was scraped during the Olympia WA scraping class. I also added pictures of the casting on the HKA-12 that have a 45 and 50 degree side. 20180605_111713.jpg20180605_111629.jpg20180605_102027.jpg2014-02-27_10-30-37_360.jpg20200815_114513.jpg
 
OK, Richard. You've plugged your straightedge castings enough. This forum is a community not your private market place. Speaking only for myself I submit there's a difference between an enterprizing someone using this forum's resources to work out manufacturing problems with specialty items for precision scraping, soliciting suggestions for their improvement, or announcing a new product Vs your flat, in-your-face marketing of your long established line of castings.

I'm not demeaning the KingWay line of straightedge castings sold by you, Richard King. They are rugged first rate products that when machined and scraped make reference tools lasting a lifetime with only periodic touch-up. I would point out there are a number of competing straightedge castings of equivalent quality offered for those desiring DIY scraped precision references. The castings offered on the market have different features, advantages, and disadvantages. Those in the market should do their research and shop wisely.
 
If you look back in the past threads:

Texas Based Straight Edges and South Bend Tools Maker

I have mentioned straight edges made by Dennis Foster, Gary Cude Products - Tools 4 Machines, Gary Martin gary martin straight edge castings - Bing images , Bushe ( now made by company in Canada)Coreprint Castings – Castings , Challenge Precision|Workholding|Angle Plates|Lapping Plates|Precision Manufacturing, Keith Rucker makes Straight edges too: Rucker Tool Company 9" Straight Edge Castings: Machining and Scraping - YouTube

There is room to talk about "all companies who can supply to the members" I have written in all aspects of machine tools on Practical Machinist helping them rebuild machines and run machines. I enjoy it and won't write any negative comments on here again. I have taught several members how to scrape and many buy SE's from everyone, as in a recent class I taught in Olympia Washington.

There were King Way, Foster and Martin in the class. I did a thread and showed pictures of all them.

Many companies and writers on here offer "help" on here using their tools. Thank You Practical Machinist.
 
Last edited:
Tyrone,
Long time since, Its me and my planer we use. And it was really like the first real work piece we set up in a planer - ever. And the first real long run of it. That day was nerve wrecking. Jan Sverre is a brave man to put that casting on the table... One of the days positive outcome is I think we summed up 8 hours running time
I highly appreciate any and all input of planer running and tooling. I have made quite a few more bits and bobs since but still have miles to go. Then it was more like - "ok, we got these bits lets see which may be the least bad compromise..."
All in all, having tried out quite a few hss bits since, those carbide tools actually did a nice job and reading later years advise on planer tooling negative bits appear to have certain upsides it seems although this old gal i guesstimate was intended for 3-4hp, maybe 3 at the cutting tip - to be spent wisely... :)
 
Tyrone,
Long time since, Its me and my planer we use. And it was really like the first real work piece we set up in a planer - ever. And the first real long run of it. That day was nerve wrecking. Jan Sverre is a brave man to put that casting on the table... One of the days positive outcome is I think we summed up 8 hours running time
I highly appreciate any and all input of planer running and tooling. I have made quite a few more bits and bobs since but still have miles to go. Then it was more like - "ok, we got these bits lets see which may be the least bad compromise..."
All in all, having tried out quite a few hss bits since, those carbide tools actually did a nice job and reading later years advise on planer tooling negative bits appear to have certain upsides it seems although this old gal i guesstimate was intended for 3-4hp, maybe 3 at the cutting tip - to be spent wisely... :)

You can't beat carbide tooling for planing cast iron.

Regards Tyrone.
 
And a nicely planed surface is so much nicer to scrape for the first four or five cycles than a ground surface.

L7
 
And a nicely planed surface is so much nicer to scrape for the first four or five cycles than a ground surface.

L7

How much diffference is there scraping a planed surface vs milled surface? I've only scraped milled surfaces as I mill my straight edges either on my BP for the smaller ones like the 8 or 18 or on a pretty good sized Lucas for the 36.

Denis
 
Denis, I’m not sure I’ve done enough scraping to know the difference scraping post milling vs planing. I can say that using a wiper insert on a mill or a very broad nose HSS in a 26” stroke shaper results in fewer passes to get under the ‘plowed’ surface than a HSS shell mill or a regular finishing bit on a shaper.

L7
 
I the recent Montebello CA class 2 students bought one of my HKA-36 45 deg. Camelbacks and they sent them to a local grinding shop https://schaffergrinding.com/about-us/ who ground them to with in .0005". One was finished before the class. The one student started to scrape it in the class. He said his first two square cuts were tougher then once he got through it, then it scraped OK. He also hung it up and Vibration stress relieved it. I might add, we had 4 different mfg. new straightedges made. I had the students blue them up and then on a bare part of the A grade plate hinge them and mark the spots. Then hang them up and beat on them with a soft blow hammer, then go back immediately after and hinge them again and all changed a little, usually from 1/2" to 2". As they scraped them and rang them, they settled down and stopped moving. I was surprised as to how cheap the grind company charged on the 36" camelback. From casting to finish. $400.00. The last picture was from another class, I'm just showing how it is done.
20201113_160050_resized.jpg20201114_092733_resized_1.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 20201113_165358_resized_1.jpg
    20201113_165358_resized_1.jpg
    91.5 KB · Views: 83
  • 20201114_105645_resized_2.jpg
    20201114_105645_resized_2.jpg
    95.4 KB · Views: 76
  • 20200815_165542.jpg
    20200815_165542.jpg
    92.1 KB · Views: 76
I worked at a place that made linear transfer machines twenty odd years ago

Short slideways were planed then scraped in
New manager decided it’s too time consuming and bought a Favretto way grinder, he was not a man to listen.
What he didn’t realise was the scraping was for final alignment not just way geometry.

It was bloody hard work scraping ground surfaces that had hardened slightly under grinding!
He didn’t last long!
 
I worked at a place that made linear transfer machines twenty odd years ago

Short slideways were planed then scraped in
New manager decided it’s too time consuming and bought a Favretto way grinder, he was not a man to listen.
What he didn’t realise was the scraping was for final alignment not just way geometry.

It was bloody hard work scraping ground surfaces that had hardened slightly under grinding!
He didn’t last long!

With a ground or milled surface you have to work your way in under the " skin " or " glaze " before the scraping gets easier. You can dig right in straight away with a planed surface.

When slideway grinders first came out the big machine tool makers over here thought they were the answer to their prayers. That was until they realised that running two ground surfaces together is not such a good idea.

Regards Tyrone.
 
It takes 2 scrapes to get through ground surface with a Biax and a 1200 grit sharpened blade. It is within .0005" compared to a say.001"to .002"planned.Time is money. I've done both and if I had a choice I would grind them before scraping. Even if I was hand scraping.
 
Towards the end Herbert tried grinding the devlieg but it wasn’t the answer and couldn’t achieve required tolerance so abandoned that idea.
A pal of mine worked there at the time and said it caused a total faff even down to rebuilding the new way grinders to improve accuracy
 
Question for planer hands: if you’re running a lower hp machine and cannot reach both regular depth of cut to get under skin on rough iron castings and sfpm for carbide is there really any advantage to carbide vs HSS? Question comes up after watching Lumberjack’s video. He said he’s got 3hp on his planer.

I’ve never run a planer but have a lot of time on a 8hp 26” stroke shaper.

L7
 
I'm not a " planer hand " myself but I've built, installed and repaired them over the years. The guys I worked with on the machines were in a production environment and they used carbide tooling all of the time when they were machining cast iron. I found out not to run too fast on cast iron with high speed steel tooling when I was an apprentice. I was cutting a chain wheel on an old " Cincy " horizontal milling machine. I had the form cutter running way too fast and I burnt it out in no time at all

Regards Tyrone.
 
In my little experience with planers and shapers, I would trade the width of the cut for a little more depth, in order to go directly under the skin.
Carbide vs, HSS: the positive of carbide is that it stays sharper significantly longer than hSS. The challenge is that, when there is appreciable play in the leadscrew and nut of the clapper box, you need to count more on gravity and positive top rake in order for the tool to keep cutting at a constant speed and not to wanting to float above the piece. A carbide tool with such geometry tends to be on the fragile side and risks to be chipped on its entry into the cut.

Paolo
 








 
Back
Top