The Question That's Gonna Get Me Kicked Off The Forum........Turcite B
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    Default The Question That's Gonna Get Me Kicked Off The Forum........Turcite B

    I'm in the middle of rebuilding this lathe. Has to remain nameless.

    American made, but ain't one of the big boys.

    I have this bad habit. I generally go from start to finish. I don't look at the pitfalls. I just keep on truckin'.

    All of the ancillary parts are complete as far as the saddle goes. Kinda like putting the cart before the horse I guess. Same with the headstock......all done.

    Anyways, now it's to the heart of the matter.

    ways1.jpg

    ways2.jpg

    I have some ways that are about 1/2 to 5/8 in width. They're toast.

    I need to know whether they're Turcite friendly. I need to raise the saddle.

    Forgot the wear measurements, it's been since Spring that I've had time to work on it. I do know that I'd like to use 1/32 Turcite to do the build.

    My greatest fear is......the ways are too narrow for this particular application.

    I don't expect the World, I just want somewhat decent results. It's an old piece of crap. And I ain't doin' parts for NASA. I'm mostly a pretty good fabricator who needs to turn the occasional part. Emery cloth is my friend

    There's wear on the bed, but like I say...…….ain't NASA. Nicholson made files for guys like me.

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    To show I'm serious, not a lame brain...………..

    Bad lock collar on the spindle shaft......got deep 6'd.

    New lock collar with different configuration because the shaft has been hard chromed, and won't accept a set screw anymore.

    Shaft Collar | Farmersamm___Welding, Trucking, Farming, and Life

    Not dickin' with ya, asking a serious question.

    Thanks

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    "I have this bad habit. I generally go from start to finish. I don't look at the pitfalls. I just keep on truckin'."

    Seems like you answered your own question. You're golden!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmersamm View Post
    To show I'm serious, not a lame brain...………..

    Bad lock collar on the spindle shaft......got deep 6'd.

    New lock collar with different configuration because the shaft has been hard chromed, and won't accept a set screw anymore.

    Shaft Collar | Farmersamm___Welding, Trucking, Farming, and Life

    Not dickin' with ya, asking a serious question.

    Thanks
    Photos labeled that the origin was ur anus and you call for "serious?"

    Fear not. You posted in "general" not bowing and scraping, so you are safe.

    I'll bite. I think you have a Moglice job rather than a Turcite job. it's an hours of work required - or not -cost/benefit thing.

    Moglice you can confirm is basically poured to fill wotever gap you've set for it with stand-offs, properlry positioned, leveled, etc. Saddle underside might not even be flat, let alone "mated", until it is poured. And then it is. Moglice has no "fixed height" only a minimum thickness.

    IF the bed has been planed, ground, or scraped true, that's your "other mold surface". With a release agent. Of course!

    Turcite comes in fixed thicknesss. You calculated clearances, bond line, and net build-back, prep the surface ACCURATELY, glue, then scrape.

    More time. Similar result anyway.

    Not aerospace. Both add-back worn-off or milled-off height. Both are slippery.

    If the bed has NOT been trued? NEITHER YET. Fix that first.

    2CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by millwrong View Post
    "I have this bad habit. I generally go from start to finish. I don't look at the pitfalls. I just keep on truckin'."

    Seems like you answered your own question. You're golden!!
    Don't pee on my leg, and tell me it's rainin'

    We, here in the heartland, do what we gotta do to keep going. Start with crap, and wind up with somewhat better crap. Keeps the cows fed, and that's all that matters. This old gal ain't gonna ever be really good, alls it has to do is make chips. Well, sorta decent chips I guess.

    Money is a problem. It has all sorts of ways to go. Feed, seed, equipment repair, insurance, pasture maintenance, replacement cows, etc etc etc. It's all on my dime. Now I'm done whining

    But I gotta seriously thank ya for your informative reply. You be golden bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmersamm View Post
    Money is a problem. It has all sorts of ways to go.
    Then Bronze shim stock, bit of fitting labour is cheaper than "Magic plastics". Yah don' need much. It won't require a sex-change operation if you screw up. Just keep fitting. Any leftovers can find other work.

    Don't get wound up over which is "better", more or less "professional". It Just Works. Decent lifespan, too. Brass is NOT Bronze, BTW.

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    Farmersam.....I suggest you have a look at the "Machine reconditioning,scraping etc" forum...on this site.....all your answers be there.....including a whole lot you didnt know to ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Farmersam.....I suggest you have a look at the "Machine reconditioning,scraping etc" forum...on this site.....all your answers be there.....including a whole lot you didnt know to ask.
    He knew enough to read, take-away, apply, avoid the priesthood's religious snark. Turcite ain't generally packaged with silage or balling-gun antipar.

    Can't be TOO damned stupid.

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    I put on Turcite (Don't recall if it was "B", Came in sheets and strips) to bring back the cross slide on my Mazak lathe. It takes quite a bit of thickness to feel good about the job.

    I removed a fair amount of metal on the mill prior to glue up. Still, "most" of the Turcite thickness went to swarf. The adhesive and Turcite has stood up well for the past 20 years, so I say, Go for it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    He knew enough to read, take-away, apply, avoid the priesthood's religious snark. Turcite ain't generally packaged with silage or balling-gun antipar.

    Can't be TOO damned stupid.
    You don't know how friggin' stupid I am. I take offense at your predetermined judgement

    I can be just as stupid as anybody. I DEMAND EQUALITY. Leastways I know my limitations. Which are epic.

    Really guys, just trying to salvage some old sh&&

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    Suggest you post in the correct section (machine tool reconditioning)

    Suggest you look in their first, turcite has been discussed there before
    at length

    Suggest you shorten title to "Turcite, some question on it's limitations, and usage"
    or something not "gonna get me kicked off the forum"

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmersamm View Post
    You don't know how friggin' stupid I am. I take offense at your predetermined judgement

    I can be just as stupid as anybody. I DEMAND EQUALITY. Leastways I know my limitations. Which are epic.

    Really guys, just trying to salvage some old sh&&
    I had the privilege of working with a git-har playin' country boy from Muscogee for a time.

    Brilliant guy. PhD. Something of a medium-legend in communications electronics, spooky stuff to Apollo launch complex.

    His old sh&& project?

    A fuel-saving VW fastback as daily-driver.

    Because he could put truck wheels and tires, beefed-up suspension on the F & R left side only, leave it settin' sidegodlin in the carpark, but have it sag dead-level and track true once his 420 lbs avoir was gripping the steering wheel from just ahead of where the back seat used to be.

    To an "OK", if it works OK, it IS OK!


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    Quote Originally Posted by farmersamm View Post

    That is only half the saddle. Is it a V and a Flat?
    ways1.jpg

    ways2.jpg

    I have some ways that are about 1/2 to 5/8 in width.
    That is kinda vague.

    They're toast.

    I need to know whether they're Turcite friendly. I need to raise the saddle.

    Forgot the wear measurements, it's been since Spring that I've had time to work on it. I do know that I'd like to use 1/32 Turcite to do the build.
    Way liner is usually sold twelve inches wide and by the foot.
    Minimum thickness is about 0.015 thick. Thickness is by 0.015 increments.
    Know trig? Calculate the height the saddle is raised by adding way liner to the V surfaces.
    That total is how thick the way liner should be to add to the flat surface.
    Likely the saddle will not be plumb and level with the bed because of prior wear.


    My greatest fear is......the ways are too narrow for this particular application.
    My greatest fear is......fear itself.
    Actually it is learning how to prep the surface and learning the proper technique to install way liner.

    I don't expect the World, I just want somewhat decent results. It's an old piece of crap. And I ain't doin' parts for NASA. I'm mostly a pretty good fabricator who needs to turn the occasional part. Emery cloth is my friend

    There's wear on the bed, but like I say...…….ain't NASA. Nicholson made files for guys like me.



    Not a precision lathe is it? Just make it work.

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    actually not a bad machine, not much in common with the unmentionables.

    V/flat arrangement for carriage and tailstock, no pot metal.

    4800 series I believe.

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    A number of options...

    One thing to consider. ANY of the possible solutions, aside from Moglice maybe, is going to require to be scraped to fit the carriage correctly and align it. So, it would be worth considering what is easy to scrape. Bronze is not my favorite, although it is better than steel. I have never scraped Turcite, but I am told it is not hard to do.

    The expense of Turcite may be worth the easier scraping, at least as long as you do not gouge it too deeply and have to re-do the Turcite.

    There is also the option of "doing nothing".

    That could be the best option, since if the saddle is worn, it's for damn sure the ways are worn also. So you would be "gold plating" the carriage, but the ways would still be whatever they were. Not a lot of advantage over using it as-is, since you will still be contending with worn areas.

    AND.....

    How much wear is there?

    A test.... with the saddle assembled and oil etc all good.... put the carriage in position that the left side of the crosslide is about even with the end of the chuck jaws. Snug the carriage lock so there is a trace of drag. Now crank the carriage to the right until it becomes jammed.

    How far did it go before jamming?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    actually not a bad machine, not much in common with the unmentionables.

    V/flat arrangement for carriage and tailstock, no pot metal.

    4800 series I believe.
    Not greatly different as to capability than an SB, Logan, Rockwell, or any other ultralight lathe, or salvaged hundred year young cone-head, no.

    Any of that lot can fix a lot of "stuff" around a working farm or garage. Not one of them worth going overly anal as to accurizing, either.

    Files and abrasives still get 'er "final" on a sneaked-up-on bearing fit weld-up cutback and the combine or wotever is back in the field earning a crust same-day, not two years after starved-out bankruptcy.

    Horses for courses.

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    Not much money available I do understand, but boughten split, clamping shaft collars from McMaster are fairly cheap. The setscrew type suck anyway, soft shaft or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    Not much money available I do understand, but boughten split, clamping shaft collars from McMaster are fairly cheap. The setscrew type suck anyway, soft shaft or not.
    And, since it looks like you could insert the collar from the end, why cutting it in half and putting two screws, instead of a simple slit and screw?

    Regarding the "rebuilding", I agree with the others that the saddle is the least of your concerns and necessary only if the pinion doesn't engage the rack anymore.
    Given that the sandpaper is your best friend, I'd invest in very good way wipers (to be replaced frequently) and I'd favor bronze strips to any polymer (less likely to embed abrasive).
    If you decide to give a try to scraping, I'd suggest you concentrate in achieving a good fit for cross-slide and compound, and just relieve the middle portion of the ways under the saddle, so that it doesn't rock too much.

    Good Luck!

    Paolo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    And, since it looks like you could insert the collar from the end, why cutting it in half and putting two screws, instead of a simple slit and screw?

    Regarding the "rebuilding", I agree with the others that the saddle is the least of your concerns and necessary only if the pinion doesn't engage the rack anymore.
    Given that the sandpaper is your best friend, I'd invest in very good way wipers (to be replaced frequently) and I'd favor bronze strips to any polymer (less likely to embed abrasive).
    If you decide to give a try to scraping, I'd suggest you concentrate in achieving a good fit for cross-slide and compound, and just relieve the middle portion of the ways under the saddle, so that it doesn't rock too much.

    Good Luck!

    Paolo
    Those little bitty cap screws didn't look to be able to stand up the torque required to bend a single slit assembly, or more importantly (leastways that's my thinking)….I didn't feel the small fine thread in the 1018 would stand the torque.

    I had considered bronze shim stock, but figured it was so out in left field that it would just draw a huge laugh. I'm glad someone (you and another poster) feels it's a viable alternative. Personally I feel it's more cost effective. No need to buy exotic adhesives to stick it to the saddle. I'm thinking a Loctite anaerobic would do nicely.

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    Bronze has been a go-to on this one.

    The worm gear in the saddle was badly worn, along with the bore in the saddle, and the bronze bushing on one end of the worm gear.

    lathe88-1.jpg

    lathe92-1.jpg

    I was able to build out the end that fits in the cast bore, and mill it to fit the oversize worn casting. It's not perfect due to the less than even wear in the bore, but it's a ton tighter now. I didn't have the option of working the casting.....too thin in this area, and the casting is too large to fit on my mill.

    Next, the bronze bushing was replaced with a steel bushing. Again, made on the mill. It has to be steel because the worm gear had to be built out with bronze on the bushing end.

    lathe121-1.jpg

    lathe125-1.jpg

    I was pleased with the way it turned out. How it will wear is anybody's guess.


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