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Ornamental Flaking (Butterfly Frosting???)

I

I'dG84that

Plastic
Joined
May 24, 2020
Location
Kansas City
I've heard of a handful of different flaking/frosting patterns used primarily for decorative purposes but I'm struggling to find information on them. I believe what I'm looking for is known as "butterfly frosting" but unfortunately google's search results only turn up pictures of cupcakes. The specific machine in question is an old Hardinge Cataract lathe. Can someone confirm that this is butterfly flaking or explain how this pattern was produced?

img21.jpgIMG_1753.jpg
 
My tired old eyes tell me the " frosting " on the compound and on the large bed are produced by using different techniques. I couldn't tell you how the " frosting " on the bed is arrived at but the " frosting " on the compound is relatively easy to reproduce.

I had a short length of round " Tufnol " with a slot cut in the bottom. I used a small piece of emery cloth folded and tucked into the slot with some of the cloth out like wings. I'd put that in a pillar drill chuck and then create the circles with a series of short sharp dabs down onto the work. I believe you could buy a custom built version of the above but I never had one.

Some people call it " engine turning " or " jewelling " I believe.

Regards Tyrone.
 
From what I understand, this is produced by a flat ground scraper. It is touched to the work so the entire flat edge rests on the work at an angle of 45ish degrees then down pressure is applied and the scraper is rotated about the center of the blade such that both sides of a "wing" pattern is formed - one half of the edge pull scraping, the other push scraping. It is then lifted, repositioned and done again for another set of wings, etc.

Tyrone's method is probably a quicker easier route but it would be quite difficult to get the same uniform regular aligned pattern as the scraper version.
 
Looking at the bed photo, I'd hypothesize that the pattern could be done as eKretz describes by marking out with pencil, a rectangular pattern matching the width of the scraper. It's placed and turned about 20 degrees at each spot, then back again for another 20 degree twist at right angles to the first. That is, two short twists at each center point with the ends of the "wings" just touching. One spot towards the upper right on the lower way looks like there may have been three twists instead of two. Maybe to cover a mistake, or maybe the guy got bored with one pattern. A lot of it is precise enough it almost looks machine made, but then there are variations here and there to trace human input.

The engine turning can be done very precisely if you're mounted in a mill and can repeat an easy movement like one turn of the table handle. I've got some thin parallels that still look pretty good after almost 45 years. Well, given that the placement was a little flaky to start with, no pun intended.
 
Yes, the grid positioning alignment isn't what I meant - my fault, I wasn't very clear. I meant the angular alignment between the butterfly "wings" in each circular component as well as the angular/rotational alignment of each set of wings to the next set in the grid and so on. Using the engine turning "stab" method described by Tyrone could produce a similar pattern but the alignments would be very random.
 
eKretz said:
Yes, the grid positioning alignment isn't what I meant - my fault, I wasn't very clear. I meant the angular alignment between the butterfly "wings" in each circular component as well as the angular/rotational alignment of each set of wings to the next set in the grid and so on. Using the engine turning "stab" method described by Tyrone could produce a similar pattern but the alignments would be very random.
Click to expand...

Without blowing my own trumpet can I just say that with practice and using a rest to slide your work along under the " dabber " you could get the circles to overlap quite nicely. I haven't got any examples left to show as I've either sold or given all my tools away.

Regards Tyrone.
 
eKretz said:
From what I understand, this is produced by a flat ground scraper. It is touched to the work so the entire flat edge rests on the work at an angle of 45ish degrees then down pressure is applied and the scraper is rotated about the center of the blade such that both sides of a "wing" pattern is formed - one half of the edge pull scraping, the other push scraping. It is then lifted, repositioned and done again for another set of wings, etc.

Tyrone's method is probably a quicker easier route but it would be quite difficult to get the same uniform regular aligned pattern as the scraper version.
Click to expand...

I wasn't able to get a better photo that depicts the pattern more clearly. However, I believe they were produced by hand as eKretz describes. Unlike jewling/engine turning which creates complete circles, this pattern is made up of hour glass shapes. That being said, jewling might be an easier method seeing that I already have enough projects needing attention.
 
I was briefly shown the method a while back but I’ve never done it on a project. So take this as a recollection from a faulty memory. A scraper is set with a flat face (as opposed to the standard radiused face). The scraper is held orthogonal to the workpiece. The scraper is then turned in a rotational manner around its axis...it’s twisted. One side push scrapes while the other pull scrapes. It was described that folks who were good at it bumped the scraper with their hand to give the hourglass shape.

As someone mentioned, I think it’s in Connelly or another scraping reference.
 
I'm pretty sure the engraving of the Hardinge compound is trying to show engine turning (jeweling). It looks a little like butterfly patterns due to the limitations of the engraving and/or photo retouching process. If you look at a CD, DVD or BluRay disk in the proper slanting light, it will look like butterfly patterns despite being definitely concentric circles.

Pretty sure Richard King mentioned the technique medsar just described in either his class or his course video. What we practiced when I took one of his classes is half-moon flaking, and I found it easiest to do by bumping or striking the shaft of the scraper while holding the blade in contact with the work.
 
I don't think so... Hardinge was a pretty common butterfly flaker. I've seen a lot of older Hardinge stuff with the butterfly pattern. None with the circular "engine turning."
 
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