Reconditioning a shaper
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  1. #1
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    Default Reconditioning a shaper

    I've got a 15 inch shaper that needs to have some wear taken out of it. The ram has .005 taper from front to back end, both sides. Haven't lifted the ram off yet, but will be milling off the taper. Should add that the ram has box ways instead of dovetail.
    Anyway, to the question, should I leave some slight "droop" in the channel the ram runs in, to compensate for deflection as the ram extends?
    I am hoping to be able to scrape the bottom of the channel and bring it back into shape, just from what I can tell, it doesn't look to need a lot of work on it.

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    Dunno, but whatever you do, post lots of pictures, would ya?

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    We may all get grey/grey-er before I get this thing worked out........but winter is coming on, so maybe I can get focused on it better.
    I was inclined to leave, maybe about .003 droop at full ram extension to offset the forces of deflection. Trying to anticipate deflection may be like trying to hit a moving target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rj1939 View Post
    We may all get grey/grey-er before I get this thing worked out........but winter is coming on, so maybe I can get focused on it better.
    I was inclined to leave, maybe about .003 droop at full ram extension to offset the forces of deflection. Trying to anticipate deflection may be like trying to hit a moving target.
    Tts an interesting question for the shaper ram. I refurbed a 14" with dovetail ways. The suggested target was to set the ram slightly up hill to compensate for the inevitable wear at the mouth of the ways it runs in (i.e. it wears in before it wears out). Now tool deflection is pushing the ram up against the top of the ways its held in. So for all intents you get wear top and bottom and thats what I found on my dovetails. This is then further complicated by the fact the ram stroke is adjustable in terms of length and its position to start and stop the stroke - so the ram wears in a different spot according to where you mostly run it, the bed ways wear at the mouth and rear end.

    I decided to set the geometry to give around 0.001" lift at full extension when the gibs where adjusted to a 0.001" clearance. The net result after all that was I can hold a 0.0003" over the 14" stroke with a little care in setting up the job on the work box. Im happy with that, as there was 0.012" of wear in the ways when I started and I could turn the machine over to determine its working tolerance on account of it being seized and having a busted bull gear shaft....

    I cant see why it should be too much difference for box ways ? But hey Im a learner on here :-)

    good luck

    All the best Mat
    There is a video (a lot I should say) on YouTube search Elliot 14S rebuild / lookcreations that shoudl pull it up.

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    Lurks Shaper video's are excellent.

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    Most geared shapers fail in the small area of teeth on the bullgear where the load comes..............which is my pet peeve..........why not make the bullgear as a bolt on ring? That could be rotated to even out wear........Academic now,another machine to the dust of history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quasi View Post
    Lurks Shaper video's are excellent.
    Am sure you have some sort of 'condition ' and have to get out more :-)

    Thanks for the thumbs up
    All the best
    Mat

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    I watched a good many of the videos some months back, up til the reassembly of the bull gear. Went back today and am having trouble getting the videos to come out in the proper order, Youtube is throwing them at me in random order.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rj1939 View Post
    I watched a good many of the videos some months back, up til the reassembly of the bull gear. Went back today and am having trouble getting the videos to come out in the proper order, Youtube is throwing them at me in random order.
    It can do that to me sometimes !
    Try going to my channel page then select PlayList and look for the shaper refurb' it will play all or allow you to scroll to each.
    here is a link for teh playlist (I hope)

    Shaper Elliot 14S pt1 - YouTube

    Hope this helps
    mat

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    Yeah, that got me back into the right sequence of videos.

    I'm not going to go into the shaper right now, I have to get some jobs out of the way before bad weather sets in............however, once the weather shuts me down, I have to get this shaper into working condition, so I'll pick this story back up then.

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    Unexpected surprise...............was sharpening a scraper for the upcoming refurbishment, went to try it on one of the top straps that holds the ram down...............it skated across it, it is hardened Never thought about that. Had figured on having to cut a step in it, so it would drop down to tighten the slack on the ram.

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    Took time to upload some pictures of the top strap:0917181034.jpg0917181036.jpg0917181037.jpg

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    Just put it on you big surface grinder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rj1939 View Post
    Unexpected surprise...............was sharpening a scraper for the upcoming refurbishment, went to try it on one of the top straps that holds the ram down...............it skated across it, it is hardened Never thought about that. Had figured on having to cut a step in it, so it would drop down to tighten the slack on the ram.
    We had a lot of discussion on "scraping" hardened ways with a small grinder. The same process for alignment just using a different tool to remove the highs.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by morestainless View Post
    Just put it on you big surface grinder.
    That is one possibility, however my surface grinder is not quite long enough to do it in one setup.

    I have been toying with putting a bronze strip under the hardened piece, maybe 1/4 inch thick, I could mill the step into it

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    Quote Originally Posted by rj1939 View Post
    That is one possibility, however my surface grinder is not quite long enough to do it in one setup.

    I have been toying with putting a bronze strip under the hardened piece, maybe 1/4 inch thick, I could mill the step into it
    That's a possible solution, or, you might consider putting it aside until your grinder grows up, and go get this to keep you busy in the mean time:

    2” HENDEY Horizontal Mechanical Shaper, NICE!! | eBay

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    The weather turned rainy, so I took some time to take the other top strap off and have a look. Looks like somebody did some "repair" in the past, it already has a step ground into that strap.
    Have to lift the ram off now.
    The straps are almost 25 inches long, my surface grinder is a 6x18, so if I pursue with the step, it will take two setups.
    Has anybody used Turcite for something like this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rj1939 View Post
    That is one possibility, however my surface grinder is not quite long enough to do it in one setup.
    You only need the set done the one-time. Southern Illinois ain't Antarctica. And they ship easily enough. Calculate whatcha need. Hire that done. Move-on to something you cannot as easily farm-out.

    CAVEAT: Shapers don't ordinarily justify a great deal of love nor the cost of it, money OR sweat, with any clear valuation of the "payback" OF it, long-since.

    Much akin to mountain climbing. You do it only because you can. Not because you must.

    True of "Old iron" in general. Shapers - any condition - just tend to sit idle more.

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    Still raining, so I took another look at my situation and did some more measuring. I'm going to grind the .010 step back flat on the gib side. The bronze filler strips under the hardened top straps seems like the most practical approach......easier to machine and would easily allow for future adjustments.
    Did a little scraping...........ATW castings seem like they are going to put up quite a fight.


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