Respraying Polane? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I'd say easy 5 to 1 life increase.
    Put it on the back enclosure on a lathe, and run the lathe like you should, and the paint will be gone in a month. It doesn't hold up to chips.

    Fine. Use the most dangerous poisonous crap you can find for paint on a machine going into the living room, then wonder why the EPA bans stuff.

    edit: here, work your way down to the last few posts. My experience as well. This is not some shit to play around with because you think it's cool. And it's not even that pretty, it's kind of dull compared to an autmotive finish.

    Polane B: Practical Machinist

    SDS :

    Causes skin irritation.
    Causes serious eye damage.
    May cause respiratory irritation.
    May cause drowsiness or dizziness.
    Suspected of causing cancer.
    Suspected of damaging fertility or the unborn child.
    May cause damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure.

    That's the nice part ...

    https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPD...ang=2&cntry=US

    This, for something to look pretty in the living room ?

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    I thought Hitler tried to respray Poland. That seemed dangerous then so likely still dangerous.

    Nowadays I wear a decent mask for sanding, painting, grinding..oh, and going to the store.

    Some older machines have a lot of filler to fill the poor casing so sometimes it can be better to sand a machine rather than stripping it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Put it on the back enclosure on a lathe, and run the lathe like you should, and the paint will be gone in a month. It doesn't hold up to chips.

    Fine. Use the most dangerous poisonous crap you can find for paint on a machine going into the living room, then wonder why the EPA bans stuff.

    edit: here, work your way down to the last few posts. My experience as well. This is not some shit to play around with because you think it's cool. And it's not even that pretty, it's kind of dull compared to an autmotive finish.

    Polane B: Practical Machinist

    SDS :

    Causes skin irritation.
    Causes serious eye damage.
    May cause respiratory irritation.
    May cause drowsiness or dizziness.
    Suspected of causing cancer.
    Suspected of damaging fertility or the unborn child.
    May cause damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure.

    That's the nice part ...

    https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPD...ang=2&cntry=US

    This, for something to look pretty in the living room ?
    Its a 2KPE EG, you understand a 2KA advertises a similar list o fears. I guess you dont, just as you dont understand the effectiveness of an airset, or appropriate extraction, because you dont really know what youre talking about.


    Film oclock, bye

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    Polane 2K paints are isocyanate polyurethane/acrylic based, or epoxy based according to which variety you purchase:- The same as other 2K paints including all auto paints apart from vintage cellulose and harry-homeshop alkyd resin (eg machine/tractor enamel).

    So yes, demon does know what he's speaking about. As do others of us who have used the stuff.

    Yes, it (or the hardener anyway) is nasty stuff. But it's essentially the same nasty stuff that's used under different names and for different purposes.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    you dont really know what youre talking about.

    Film oclock, bye
    I know I used the shit, came with the lathe, straight from American Tool, and it was deadly.

    You guys do whatever the fuck you want for a stupid decoration, and I will no longer sneer at the EPA for closing down nasty chemicals because nitwits insist on using them in inappropriate ways. It is not like normal automotive paint. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I know I used the shit, came with the lathe, straight from American Tool, and it was deadly.
    Well you survived, despite not protecting yourself adequately and taking a shot to the lungs. Perhaps its not as 'deadly' as you fear. 99.98% dejavu

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    EmanuelGoldstein: the SDS you have attached shows that the substance is mid-level dangerous and less flammable than a regular Rustoleum spray can. The scale for physical hazard (=reactivity), flammability, and health risks goes from 0 (lowest) to 4 (highest). For Polane they give more detailed information for health risks: up to 2 for target organs and long lasting effects and 3 for narcotic effects and short terms respiratory track inflammation. A regular spray paint can is scored at 2 for health risks (no many details specified in the SDS I found). But, given that the rattle can has more volatiles with lower flash point, it is scored 4 in flammability, compared to a score of 3 for Polane. Both score 0 in physical hazard.

    Things we use more regularly, without thinking, like regular bleach are classified 3 s health risks (see the section 16 of Clorox SDS)

    Everything is relative. It is always important to use the proper protective equipment for everything.
    And, regarding the environment, perhaps it is overall less harmful using a more polluting substance once, than having to use multiple times a less polluting one. As the old adagio says: Dilution is the solution to pollution (and dilution can be intended both in space and time).

    Paolo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    Everything is relative. It is always important to use the proper protective equipment for everything.
    Paolo, it eats your eyes and your skin and makes breathing unbearable, sprayed with a mask. It is much worse than you think. Try it and see. Sure, I was not wearing a moon suit with oxygen pumped in from down the street, but I doubt if our intrepid original poster planned on that either.

    Go try it. I have run Ontario at 150 mph on a motorcycle, done plenty of acid, mesc, psilocybin, swum across the mouth of a river, run through skookumchuck rapids and dent and played tag with devil's hole, exceeded 100 mph on public highways more times than anyone sane would admit in public, skiied the woods way beyond my abilities, I am not a scaredy-cat. In fact I am kinda stupid. But this stuff is bad shit.

    Fine. You guys do what you want. But I like my eyes and I like to breathe. Ten minutes with this shit and I thought I'd lost both.

    There's your public service announcement. Do with it whatever you want.

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    The reason that the SDS for the paint doesn't show that it's all that dangerous is because the paint isn't all that dangerous. The isocyanate hardener is what does your lungs in. That's why you use the remote air fed mask or an ABP3 mask (European nomenclature).

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  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    Well you survived, despite not protecting yourself adequately and taking a shot to the lungs. Perhaps its not as 'deadly' as you fear. 99.98% dejavu
    Ain't just the lungs. Permanent central nervous system damage is nothing to sneeze at... Isocyanates are absorbed through the skin, too, so a full suitup is required just to mix the shit up.

    Had a very good friend/mentor die 20 years too soon from a rare nervous system disease. The one where an increasing number of motor neurons (the ones that control muscles) fired randomly at closer and closer intervals. He spent the last year of his life in bed, in pain, with balled up washcloths in both hands to keep his fingernails from digging into his palms.

    He was also the guy who loved Polane 2 and believed the warnings were overblown. Sprayed it inside without a mask (it was wintertime in Vermont, ya know, can't waste the heat), then worked in that space.

    I'm not saying that his death was attributable to Polane poisoning. But.... the docs who were familiar with the disease said the research indicated environmental causes.

    Anyone here want to argue that it's good for you?

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    Product packaging and literature clearly state, For Professional Use Only. If unable to comprehend that, and use necessary precautions have no one to blame but yourself. One more time, this forum demonstrates its attraction to hobbyist hacks with no professional experience. Be better of knitting organic teddy bears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    One more time, this forum demonstrates its attraction to hobbyist hacks with no professional experience.
    Absolutely. It takes a real professional, such as yourself, to eat up six hours drawing a circle in a CAD program.

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    Agree with EG and others that this stuff is nothing to play with lightly. Misty in the air and hardens in your lungs. Obviously not a good thing.
    Much safer but then again grinding tungsten carbide maybe not so good for you either so to those sharpening brazed bits or scraper blades...
    Even done wet the cobalt can be absorbed through the skin if coolant type or concentration not correct so Haz-mat suit and gloves would be best.
    I am sure your insert package has a warning label on it.
    Now lets talk using leaded steel. They tell me lead is bad around here (Flint Michigan) and my IQ must be much lower because of it since being in the lead pipe area when young.

    I see very good reasons to tell most people to stay away from these but the attraction is the performance.
    To me the thing is that so many will not need or get that performance. For a home or small shop why jump through all the hoops, hassles and risks?

    OP is touch up work. Airbrush touch, paintbrush, full gun spray????
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    Ain't just the lungs. Permanent central nervous system damage is nothing to sneeze at... Isocyanates are absorbed through the skin, too, so a full suitup is required just to mix the shit up.

    Had a very good friend/mentor die 20 years too soon from a rare nervous system disease. The one where an increasing number of motor neurons (the ones that control muscles) fired randomly at closer and closer intervals. He spent the last year of his life in bed, in pain, with balled up washcloths in both hands to keep his fingernails from digging into his palms.

    He was also the guy who loved Polane 2 and believed the warnings were overblown. Sprayed it inside without a mask (it was wintertime in Vermont, ya know, can't waste the heat), then worked in that space.

    I'm not saying that his death was attributable to Polane poisoning. But.... the docs who were familiar with the disease said the research indicated environmental causes.

    Anyone here want to argue that it's good for you?
    Thankyou for your non professional opinion on things but the HSEuk does not agree with you, and neither do I.

    Sorry to hear about your buddy, but 'spraying inside without a mask'... Sounds like he listened to a goober and paid the price, if of course it had anything to do with his condition.

    Why does any thread that has the mere sniff of iso have to turn into a shitfuck, fear + ignorance im guessing.
    Perspective and appropriate measures gents, and you too can survive the iso pandemic.

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    Clean and scuff up the old paint and re-shoot.
    Try not to let the film thickness build up.
    Spot prime if down to bare metal.
    Pay attention to the re-coat times.

    I shot tons of aluminum castings with Polane T.
    Not sure how the B differs, might just be the texture.
    Anodize to color, wash prime, base coat then texture coat.
    Keep the paint thickness thin and nothing else could take as much abuse.

    Nothing more than a mask with the proper cartridges and gloves.
    If you could smell it you were not wearing the mask properly.
    I may not still be young and beautoful but it ain't kilt me yet.

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  21. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    .... One more time, this forum demonstrates its attraction to hobbyist hacks with no professional experience. Be better of knitting organic teddy bears.
    Really, Don? So you advocate spraying Polane like Cash's painters do? They're pros. You might want to check EG's gear creds, too.

    So if I stop knitting OG Teddy bears (had to laugh at that one, don't forget basketweaving ) and breathe that shit without a respirator, do you really think it will improve my health? Serious question. Exposure to this stuff is a matter of degrees.

    I've rebuilt and rescraped a few machine tools myself (though I'm nowhere near as skilled at it as you are) finishing them off by spraying with Polane, and I make a living by machining stuff. I'm sensitive to isocyanates, (dermatitis, prob more) having sprayed polyisourethane insulation in the family biz with soso protection as a youth.

    So I do full suitup to mix, outside, and have a fresh air hood over VOC cartridge respirators, with intake a ways away.

    An MSDS doesn't cover everything. It's informative, it's a guide, based on science which is ever evolving, based on self-interested mfger information vetted and edited by government agencies subject to political pressure. Anyone who not only believes everything their government tells them but absolutely trusts their health to it is a fool. Read further. Central nervous system damage, even a little bit, is bad news all around, doesn't always show up right away and is not always clearly cause and effect.

    My point to all of you is that the full effects aren't known and to be proactive and take care of your body. It's the only one you've got and you can fuck it up irreparably, quickly. But do what you want. It's yours.

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    What is it with the 'breath it without a respirator' shit? No one here is suggesting that. Unlike some of the folks in this thread, take Appropriate measures and youll be fine.

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    Sorry to hear about your buddy, but 'spraying inside without a mask'... Sounds like he listened to a goober and paid the price, if of course it had anything to do with his condition.

    Why does any thread that has the mere sniff of iso have to turn into a shitfuck, fear + ignorance im guessing.
    Thanks. Yup, he listened to a goober, all right. Himself .

    My point is that any exposure to VOCs or isocyanates causes damage. It's fear, agreed, a rational fear, supported by science and the gov, ya know. That's why one is supposed to wear a good respirator.

    Further, the best science so far is just that. So far. IMO, we don't know much about the long term effects of this stuff. Read about how long it took to make the connection between asbestos and mesothelioma and how long after exposure it takes the tumors to appear. Obviously, this is a different beast, science is faster at these things nowadays, and we have more test subjects, but that's not really helpful to ignorant us who have to/will have to deal with the longterm effects.

    Better not to breathe it or let it get on your skin, obviously.

    My apologies to the OP for the hijacking of your thread.

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    Again, I dont think theres anyone here advocating mo masking it in clouds of overspray or taking hardner baths. It takes a bit of basic savy to protect yourself, everyone here seems to have that with the possible exception of EG. The OP certainly seems to have it covered.


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