Resurfacing Old Pre-1926 American 16" Jointer Tables and Ways

Hello all. 1st post and found this forum after searching for advice on how to proceed with a woodworking machine restoration/rebuild, specifically resurfacing the tables and possibly the lower wedge ways of an old American 16" jointer (pre Yates-American). Best guess was 1911 as the year of manufacture.

Problems:

1) Tables are too out-of-flat. Infeed and Outfeed tables have a lengthwise wallow of .015 and .010 respectively, in the areas just before and just after the cutterhead (already had a new Hermance Helixhead made and installed). These problem areas extend about 12 inches away from the cutterhead, gradually getting better to a relatively flat area in the center of the tables. These areas are consistent with where most of the pressure would have been applied over the decades.

2) The entire lower wedges (infeed and outfeed) rock on their flat ways against the angled base; neither mate properly. Neither the infeed nor outfeed tables are stable without shims or over-cranking on the gibb screws. It's currently not possible to align either the infeed or outfeed table.

Potential Solutions:

1) I've found a company that does metal planing in my area (tables were originally planed...you can still see the old scalp lines on the outfeed table..see pic). They want about $1200.00 to plane both tables, and another $900.00 to plane the undersides of the tables (see pics) if I want that done. Not sure if I want the undersides redone or if I should just shim them...? Found another company Schaffer Grinding that would do both tables, just the tops, for $900.00...not sure if their quote was for surface/mattison grinding or blanchard grinding, will follow-up

2) Not sure if I should just attempt to shim the ways for the lower wedges or try and have those redone as well. Got a good amount of $ invested so far, and I'm curious as to HOW these jointers were originally machined...and how similar jointers today are machined. This style of jointer has tabletops that rest on upper mating/sliding surfaces of a lower wedge, which then mates with the angled base with flat ways. I'm thinking they used some sort of fixture to machine the upper and lower surfaces of each lower wedge, but the jointer base itself had to be machined as-it-stood, with its mating surfaces for the wedges at a near-45-degree angle to the floor.

Question:

What do you all think of those resurfacing quotes? I'm going with something, just don't know which. Getting more quotes next week. Leaning toward planing...

Assuming it can be done accurately to maintain alignment, would you shim or resurface the ways (both the lower wedge ways on the bottom and the jointer base itself)? And how do you think they were machined in the first place? How would a shop resurface them accurately? What machines, what methods?

I've attached an initial set of pictures; will attach more tomorrow.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for your time!

-Devin
Central CA

I see your in CA...there is a really great grinding company down by LA that does accurate work cheap. Give them a call. https://schaffergrinding.com/

Are the lips worn at the head to the same degree? I would want a planed surface if possible for a jointer. I doubt I would plane the undersides, particularly the outfeed. I'd put a machinist level on the infeed wedges to see if the bubble stays the same as the wedge is adjusted. If it does, the table will remain co planar over the travel and you can shim the tops if necessary although it often isn't. A .15 dip is a lot and the planing marks should be worn off in that area. The area behind the cutter on the outfeed is the most critical. If you get that table flat, the infeed can be less so and still impact the quality of the machine that much. The old jointers were usually spec'd to .002-.004 across the length of both tables so that is what you shoot for. Dave

Call Edward's Bay Area Grinding in Newark, CA. He has a blanchard and I think he will grind them for a LOT less than the prices you have listed there.

Can you post a photo of the jointer assembled so we can see how the table adjusters work?

Richard King said:

I see your in CA...there is a really great grinding company down by LA that does accurate work cheap. Give them a call. Schaffer Grinding

Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendation. I mentioned them in my post. They want $400 for the outfeed and $500 for the longer infeed, surface grinding. If the company with all the metal planers (Valco Precision) doesn't work out, they are who I'd choose. Valco felt 'busy' and nonchalant about my interest. They may just have enough bigger jobs where I'm not worth their time; makes sense I guess. They want $1900 to plane the infeed table, the outfeed table as well as my powermatic E-16 planer bed that I threw in the quote request.

beckerkumm said:

Are the lips worn at the head to the same degree? I would want a planed surface if possible for a jointer. I doubt I would plane the undersides, particularly the outfeed. I'd put a machinist level on the infeed wedges to see if the bubble stays the same as the wedge is adjusted. If it does, the table will remain co planar over the travel and you can shim the tops if necessary although it often isn't. A .15 dip is a lot and the planing marks should be worn off in that area. The area behind the cutter on the outfeed is the most critical. If you get that table flat, the infeed can be less so and still impact the quality of the machine that much. The old jointers were usually spec'd to .002-.004 across the length of both tables so that is what you shoot for. Dave

Click to expand...

Lips are worn to the same degree, yes. And they can be removed with bolts from underneath for replaning. I think I will give the Valco Precision place (with 13 metal planers) a try if I can find someone to talk with me for a bit; want them to explain what they plan to do, tooling and stepover, guaranteed tolerance, etc. I don't own a machinist level, but this sounds like an excellent excuse to buy one. I will try it out. Yes the planing marks are only left on the outfeed table. That critical area just after the cutterhead on the outfeed table is down 10 thou, and slopes back up to -5 thou about 12" away. I attached some new pics in a post below. And thanks for the spec values.

jwearing said:

Call Edward's Bay Area Grinding in Newark, CA. He has a blanchard and I think he will grind them for a LOT less than the prices you have listed there.

Can you post a photo of the jointer assembled so we can see how the table adjusters work?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendation. For these jointer tables, my preferences would be a planer or a Mattison first. I will definitely check them out for future work though, thank you. More pictures in my post below.

More pictures related to what some have brought up:

Pics of measurements made with a 48" Starrett 380 straightedge. *Claim* is 0.0002 (2 tenths) per foot but I measured each taped location 4 times to account for straight edge error, 1st flipped top-over-bottom, then spun the whole thing around and flipped top-over-bottom again. Got the same feeler gauge measurement each time. Hey at least my straight edge is flat enough even if my table isn't...








Picture of Jointer on 'skates' while I decide what to do with it

More Pics of Outfeed Wedge Ways

Outfeed Table (Lower Wedge) Way Rocked Open



Outfeed Table (Lower Wedge) Way Rocked Shut with a little pressure on tabletop



Spring Joint Cam is 'Normally Engaged' which keeps the back of the wedge lifted off of the way a bit so you can disengage it to drop the back of the table down below the cutterhead-top plane for a 'spring joint' (yields slight concavity in an edge-jointed board to better prevent the ends from separating when glued together, not done as much anymore)



Close-Up of flat/Box Way on lower wedge...notice it's normally lifted up like this because of the Spring Joint cam being normally engaged to keep the tabletop inline with the cutterhead




And I'll be honest...I don't really see what, in its current state, that gib and its three screws are doing for me other than being a guard rail to keep the wedge from sliding off. It completely detaches from the wedge, and the lower-inner part of the gib seems like it's not even touching the jointer base surface at all..there's a pretty good gap in there. So tightening the gib screws don't do much.....thoughts?