Scientific Paper on Scraping and Measurement - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Still kicking, Rich. Too many tall buildings to leap and young husbands to out-run so I've been busy.

    The scraping thread seems to run well enough. I check in but don't often contribute. It's discouraging to compete with well-meant noise..
    Last edited by Forrest Addy; 02-09-2018 at 07:33 PM.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Yet that holy grail is yet to be achieved so some kudos to the masters they hope to copy.
    Sooooo... IMO, the OP should justifiably stand proud of his work, teaching and contribution.
    We will all be eclipsed by the future. The OP has done much to make a mark. Can any man hope for more?

    More to the point... Why poop on his parade?
    At what physiological view does this make sense?
    Bob
    Since you asked... with less of the same gramaphone tube drowning the hall, we might hope to hear from those with techniques they have not yet shared - whether with 30,000. Or even ONE other.

    If even the sacred BIAX have seen fit to upgrade their tools, are we at the end of days for "incremental corrections" AKA scraping - or might there be more gains yet unrealized?

  4. #23
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    jeal·ous
    ˈjeləs/Submit
    adjective
    feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.
    "they grew jealous of his success"

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    jeal·ous
    ˈjeləs/Submit
    adjective
    feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.
    "they grew jealous of his success"
    No one more jealous of his own success, nor as loudly and longly defensive of it, than yourself.

    There's the rub, Rich.

    You find a way to drive all the Oxygen out of a "virtual" room you do not even rent, let alone OWN, presumptions of ownership notwithstanding.

    If A.N. Other "scraper" not to your personal liking is to be heard from?

    Must we leave PM to hear of that? Or can you find generosity of place enough to share the stage now and then as well as you had shared the lore?

    Not a person to be found as weakens your claims as consistently as you do yourself on a "terrible two's" day. Too few that even still give a damn, detractor or otherwise. You've run 'em off - friend, foe, or the newly curious alike.

    Supporters flock to your defense? May as well send a case of whiskey to an alcoholic.
    That is not a kindness. The reverse, rather.

    However well you may get along eyeball-to-eyeball, "the internet" has consistently proven toxic to your reputation. And you have known that for some time.

    Your accomplishments are legend. No one besides yourself has the capacity to diminish them.

    Please bite your damned keyboard - and allow them to stand!

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  7. #25
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    IMHO!!
    OT

    Bill You have the gall to criticize me with your constant attacks to anyone (not just me) who doesn't laugh at your crazy rants or jokes ? Take a look in the mirror. Who deleted your one post that was in the Bridgeport rant? You or PM?

    Why do you have to always be the last one to comment in what seems every post on this forum? What you write 1/2 the time is some gibberish that only you can understand. I try to inform people with facts related to this forum and get some gibberish comment from you, that no one cares to read IMHO. As Paolo and Car said so elegantly in that Bridgeport thread. What gives you the right to talk about machine rebuilding. What have you ever scraped or rebuilt?

    Why did you change your screen name from Thermite?

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    IMHO!!
    OT

    Bill You have the gall to criticize me with your constant attacks to anyone (not just me) who doesn't laugh at your crazy rants or jokes ? Take a look in the mirror. Who deleted your one post that was in the Bridgeport rant? You or PM?

    Why do you have to always be the last one to comment in what seems every post on this forum? What you write 1/2 the time is some gibberish that only you can understand. I try to inform people with facts related to this forum and get some gibberish comment from you, that no one cares to read IMHO. As Paolo and Car said so elegantly in that Bridgeport thread. What gives you the right to talk about machine rebuilding. What have you ever scraped or rebuilt?

    Why did you change your screen name from Thermite?
    Change the subject if you will. I'm not your enemy. No case of Whiskey from me.

    Nor is it "scraping" I comment on. It is the personality barrier you keep throwing up that blocks the very opportunity to learn about scraping, rather!

    You don't leave a great deal of space for any enemies but yourself!

    HowintheHell can scraping, the actual craft itself, persevere and attract new entrants if it is all about your emotions, your ego, your life story, your student head-count, your importance to those who hired you, your condescending name-dropping of 'subordinates' in your world-view of some sort of regimented global pecking order among a priesthood of scrapers, your commercial interests, and so little else?

    Ever.

    I'm still grateful.

    Grateful you made those videos of yours I bought BEFORE you went all self-damaging arrogant and domineering.

    You were calm, helpful, patient, and professional as a younger man.

    I'd really rather remember you that way if the old goodness can no longer be salvaged.

    If I am on your radar the most? Might it be that I still hope when others have ceased to care?

    You seek zero feedback? Never a challenge? No questions? No critics?
    Might want to be more careful what you wish for.

    Far more famous Louis Chevrolet was eventually dealt that sort of hand of cards.

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  10. #27
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    I thought the discussion about the computer measurements and some of the photos were interesting.

    A scientific way of looking at this age old process.

    Something to get the young kids excited about, the old timers as well.

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  12. #28
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    Bill said by someone who has never met me. Do you think Keith Rucker and others who have met me would continue to invite me back if I was the person you describe? I want to explain to the membership you put your socks on the same way everyone else does. I make mistakes and learn something every day. Look in the mirror someday and reflect on how many people hated Thermite and thats why you changed your name. Subject closed!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    I thought the discussion about the computer measurements and some of the photos were interesting.

    A scientific way of looking at this age old process.

    Something to get the young kids excited about, the old timers as well.
    I wish we new more about what other builders are up to. I suspect the reason it doesn't get much press is that the answers are more and more often covered in exotic plastics and/or riding on costly rolling-element bearings than they are on metal-to-metal oil-lubricated sliding ways.

    Doubt the classical ways will EVER vanish. They can be right inexpensive. Even so, their "design wins" for new goods have probably been gradually dropping for quite some time.

    Scraping may diminish simply because the need for it where the costs can be covered has done. The need and funding for it both going scarce, general reservoir of skill must shift from many Day Job practitioners to DIY smallholders, retirees, and hobbyists lavishing TLC on Old iron.

    "Amateurs?" Certainly. Damned few ever claim otherwise. Nonetheless, many have hit good as can be product in under two years of part-time work off the back of dedication and perseverance, formal class course or not.

    Important that the craft not vanish from this Earth. It is a muscle-powered "disaster recovery" tool of first order criticality even more than it is an enhancer of what is NOT broken.

    Meanwhile.. has to be hard to make a business out of small companies living off the unpredictable spend of even smaller customers, any craft skill, scraping not unique.

    Economic exercise, not purely a technical one, IOW. That, too, is "age old".

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    Bill said by someone who has never met me. Do you think Keith Rucker and others who have met me would continue to invite me back if I was the person you describe?
    We got along well enough on the phone. You even still had a sense of humor at the time.

    And it isn't the person *I* describe that matters. It is the one YOU publish!

    Gunga Din. That "'arf a pint of water, green", line comes to mind on your bad days, Rich.

    What other options did they have? Whom else could they call? What candidates as did not already have a full time Day Job commitment?

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  17. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post

    Doubt the classical ways will EVER vanish. They can be right inexpensive. Even so, their "design wins" for new goods have probably been gradually dropping for quite some time.

    Scraping may diminish simply because the need for it where the costs can be covered has done. The need and funding for it both going scarce, general reservoir of skill must shift from many Day Job practitioners to DIY smallholders, retirees, and hobbyists lavishing TLC on Old iron.
    Two things : 1) there are a lot of way technologies out there which are either still too expensive or not quite ready for prime time. I'm guessing that given the pressure on CO2 reduction etc we'll see more welded stuff and more "add-on" ways. 2) The level of accuracy which needs to be built into the machine is not that critical anymore - the electronics take care of things.

    It's super to see scraping alive and well here and so many gifted people interested in it. I wish I could develop some enthusiasm for it. Unfortunately I'm a grinder man, myself.

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  19. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexO View Post
    Unfortunately I'm a grinder man, myself.
    Herr Pelz and one of his periodic DIY-new-from-scratch Bronze spindle bearings of his beloved B&S #2 SG the main course - summer of 1960?

    Flat surfaces? Why would one? The Parker-Majestic wasn't down. Pope did the spindle for that one.



    But there you have it. "infrastructure", its cost and portability. NFW what I have invested in scraping "preparation" could cover even a good 6" X 18" SG.

    Which of course, would be totally useless in any case for what lathe beds four-plus feet long want.

    Back to scraping, hand or assisted-hand. Biax needs the operator as much as the operator needs the Biax. Hand-tool, not Machine-tool.

    But portable they are, and affordable they can be made to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexO View Post
    2) The level of accuracy which needs to be built into the machine is not that critical anymore - the electronics take care of things.
    Last year I bought a home user style 3d printer. With it it does not matter what shape the bed is as it maps it out automatically using a probe. Then when it prints it compensates as it goes along. And this is a consumer home item.

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  22. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC99 View Post
    Last year I bought a home user style 3d printer. With it it does not matter what shape the bed is as it maps it out automatically using a probe. Then when it prints it compensates as it goes along. And this is a consumer home item.
    The technology to do such things is affordable, now. It was less-so, and even classified to high security levels, "way back then", but this has been a longer journey than first appears.

    Present technology - scaled off what you just described, and certainly on far larger budget - could permit pouring the bedways for a 14 X 30 lathe out of ignorant redi-mix Big Box bagged concrete, hand troweling them, turning loose the electronics and opticals to assess, store and update, JF make parts with a bedway rough as the proverbial cob and still moving as the concrete aged and temps changed.

    Classical approach to machine tools was to implement massive beds and guides, strive for the utmost of stability and the longevity OF it because the machine was the local source of all accuracy, all freedoms of movement.

    As you have just demonstrated, all of that is now being outsourced to fractions of an ounce worth of cleverly contaminated beach sand.


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